ljuwaidah: so aren't there more people who use FOSS in Oman? there are, but they're only a few ljuwaidah: ah. Oman has .om as its TLD. .om .nom .nom p.om p.om kabo.om DJB got the cr.yp.to domain. And there's also ali.as which is Adam Kennedy's. looool rand.om :P do.om :P ro.om m.om your.m.om hahahaha is that supposed to be a milf site? :P yahoo.c.om bro.om http://yourmom.com/ Though it's down now. don't keep your hopes up on .om domains our ISP is a greedy money sucker "I'd rather be a .com than a .om" rindolf: me too ljuwaidah: this was a joke. I have a few .org domains. From GoDaddy unless you need it for a domain trick * Black_Phoenix <--- .com bastard here rindolf: where's the joke? ljuwaidah: joke? ljuwaidah: it rhymes. dot-com, dot-om - get it? get it? get it? ;-) no :( ljuwaidah: om rhymes with com. so? ljuwaidah: "I'd rather be a dot-com than a dot-om" ljuwaidah: it's just a silly rhyme. I'd rather a website Black_Phoenix: I accidentally a web-site. I still don't get the joke rindolf, I'd still rather a blog Black_Phoenix: rather what a blog? Website a blog ljuwaidah: never mind. sorry, I don't know why I'm slow today Black_Phoenix: do you mean that you would rather *be* a web-site? I'd rather website a blog broken grammar time :D Black_Phoenix: when did website become a verb? it didn't I'm using it as a verb to produce nonsense I sense light! {I see} ljuwaidah: http://www.google.com.om/ rindolf: I know If Google can do it - so can you. I don't use it 'cause some services don't work on it ljuwaidah: ah. ljuwaidah: in any case, seems like one can register a .com.om domain. -- The .om domain -- ##programming, Freenode % How do I write a computer vision program in C on a microcontroller? Quetzalcoatl_: with a text editor? Hmm.. Never thought of that. But which editor? Is Notepad good enough? no, you need at least Wordpad mauke: I suggest MS Word or at least OpenOffice.org mauke: but in order to really be able to write well, you need a desktop publishing program like Scribus or Adobe FrameMaker. * rindolf wonders which compiler will accept PDFs as input. rindolf: /usr/bin/pdftotext waiting: and pray. There's an estoric programming language called Piet (I think) that accepts images as input. -- How to write stylistic code -- ##programming, Freenode % Deiu: which editor are you using? Ugh, let me catch up with the convo first And yeah, I use vim too Deiu: ah good. If you were using Eight Megabytes And Continuously Swapping , I would have to swap you with it! I have a column of vim tips on one of my blogs. I also like Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift. There are a lot of jokes about Emacs. There are lots of jokes about your mom too ;) Zuu: eMom eh? e-Macs -> eMum "Your Mom is so fat, only Emacs takes more memory than her." nope, doesnt work Zuu: :-( Your emacs is so fat that your mom could fit in it Heh. ahhh, yes, much better Zuu++ :P --> dbm has joined ##programming * rindolf stores some key/value pairs in dbm * Zuu stores some moms in dbm lol Zuu: you overflowed him. :> ;) Or her, don't know. them. 'him' OK. dbm: I don't recall your nick. dbm= dont bother me don't be mean. ;) or: do bother me -- Your Emacs is so fat -- ##programming, Freenode % --> xmler has joined ##programming Hi How can I do blah in XSLT? xmler: you can use xmler: or use ${...} xmler: have you read the Zvon XSLT tutorial? rindolf: I've read various resources; perhaps it's the fault of XML::XSLT on CPAN xmler: use XML::LibXSLT instead. It's faster and better. :) "XSLT is the work of Satan" "It's the worst thing since non-sliced bread." Hahaha :D "Mothers used to tell their children about XSLT to scare them." Haha That last one is good XSLT seems pretty cool xmler, no no, that's not mean you're doing it wrong :P XSLT is too cool to be mean to :p Hehe "XSLT is the number one cause of programmers' suicides since Visual Basic 1.0" lol :> I could believe in that "The X in XSLT stands for eXtermination." "XSLT makes the baby jesus cry." "The only things worse than XSLT are Excel and sugarless tea." rofl * Zuu kinda likes Excel Zuu: yes, it was a joke. Noooh! they are all true! Now I'm out of ideas. i havent even had a single idea yet.. "XSLT is what Chuck Norris has nightmares of." Whoah! wait.. that would somehow make XSLT cooler than Chuck Norris... Chuck Norris dont have mightmares "Confucius e says: 'XSLT made me realise humanity was hopeless." "Even APL wont make friends with XSLT" yay, i maded one! "God considered using XSLT as the tenth plague of Egypt, but thought it was too evil." Zuu: :-) Haha :D that plauge one is awesome "In Soviet Russia, XSLT codes you. Badly!" "Satan condemned Hitler for a million years of writing XSLT" OK, back to work. C - not XSLt. :) "The KGB used to torture their victims by having them look at scrolling XSLT code" rindolf: lol, love the KGB + XSLT one rindolf: by the way, what's with the XSLT hate by the way, is it some kind of meme? :p * Zuu gives xmler an XSLT interpreter written in XSLT I wanna make ASM code from XSLT "My name is Inigo Montoya. You forced my father to write XSLT. Prepare to die! And be thankful I don't force you to write XSLT." Ah for gawd's sake. Can't install XML::LibXML, it says I don't have libxml2 (I do) xmler: do you have the -devel package? xmler: what is your distro? OS distro I mean. rindolf: Debian 4.0 Ooh, perhaps I don't actually xmler: ok, then apt-get install libxml-libxslt-perl * Zuu have to go o/ xmler: maybe we should discuss it on #perl? Zuu: bye Zuu: and beware of stray XSLT code. I will :P Zuu: OK. rindolf: sure, uno memento :) -- Chuck Norris is out! XSLT is in! -- ##programming, Freenode % rindolf! areth thou here? Hi dazjorz :) dazjorz: yes, I are here. isn't it kind of weird to have a programming channel when there are language specific channels around? Muhah! dazjorz: this is about programming in general. At least theoretically. And VB.NET questions. Well, ##programming is a good place to ask C questions and actually get helpful answers :) rindolf: did you intentionally make it look like vb.net is not programming? dazjorz: meet Zuu - he's into Windows and D and stuff. ! dazjorz: no. dazjorz: VB.NET is programming. hey Zuu, I'm dazjorz, I'm into linux and c and stuff. But it has its own channel. :> rindolf: I've been thinking about changing nicks dazjorz: ah. so did I. * Zuu is into everything sane, except the boring stuff dazjorz: to what? rindolf: my current one is waaaay too lame, but "sjors" is probably too generic dazjorz: I like dazjorz rindolf: I don't, because when people see my name is sjors, da zjorz is just too lame to bear rindolf: I was thinking about sjors, or some three-letter abbreviation of my name, sjg or so how about.... 'carrot' ? I think I do prefer dazjorz over carrot no worries, i promise not to stuff you up rindolf's tomato nose hum :< Zuu: when I first read your nick on Shlomi's site five minutes ago, I asked him whether you were a mix between Zorix and Buu do you know the two? Zoffix and buu. nope uh zoffix yeah Zuu: okay, well, you don't know them, but believe me, I'm glad you're not a mix of the two, that would be horrible :P im a mix of much worse personalities im sure most of them just happen to cancel each other out -- Introudcing dazjorz to Zuu -- ##programming, Freenode % dazjorz: I considered switching my default nick to "shlomif", because that's how most people know me. rindolf: yeah, it's your alternative nick now right? dazjorz: but then XChat2 reverted to the old nick and I was too lazy. You seem to have many, well, stupid friends, rindolf :P dazjorz: yes, I have it registered. unreal: stupid? rindolf, noo! what to do about the tomato then? fish dont have big tomato noses! Zuu: fish? Zuu: I'll give you a tomoato. good question I'll give you the tomato back. where do i get fish from no no, keep it :D Zuu: my last name is Fish. * tommy_the-dragon slaps zuu with a fish there ya go rindolf: I just registered 'sjors' * rindolf gives a fish to Zuu rindolf: as a nick. rindolf, thats just absurd, a reindeer with 'fish' as surname... your parents must have hated you Open source: "everyone contributes a fish, and in exchange everyone gets their own ocean." dazjorz: ah, cool. tommy_the-dragon, does dragons eat other animals, like fish? Ocean == Big Momma's Bath? Zuu: I'm not a reindeer - I just play one on T.V. not fish... just reindeers tommy_the-dragon, what about fake TV reindeers ? Nice :D unreal: no, the whole enchilada. tommy_the-dragon: LOL. and enchiladas rindolf: I know someone whose nick is Stonehead, he made his three-letter acronym stn, but usually it's letters from the first name uh the full name yours could be shf for example, and everybody would know "hey, that's shlomi" but I'm at most sg, so I need to borrow another letter somewhere, or make it daz or just sjors * dazjorz thinks my cat eats flies... dazjorz: I hate these three letter acronyms. shlomi really sounds like some dish made of reindeer but hes lucky because i dont eat cats Zuu: heh. heh tommy_the-dragon: I didn't know dragons had cats. what's the name of the red-nosed reindeer again? it sounds edible at least oh rudolf :) dazjorz: Randolph. oh I used to have a friend whos nick was "crap" unreal: wow. crap, someone stole my bicycle ok? dazjorz: heh. rindolf: why don't you like the three-letter acronyms? dazjorz: often too confusing. dazjorz: and two easy to mistype. dazjorz: and not too memorable. LIS. three easy to mistype, I think And often hard to pronounce. maybe I'll just go with sjors too easy. Freudian. dazjorz: yes, I think that's a good idea. (Lies, I say!) hehe, rindolf++ # freudian or you could pick something girly and hope people will treat you nicer :) dazjorz: have you played with the farnsworth bot yet? Zuu: RinGirl Though nicks with "Girl " in them tend to draw too much attention. nah, it cant contain 'girl' that just seems fake rindolf: I have rindolf: remind me to fix knotify, khtml, and quassel :( dazjorz: nice. dazjorz: using MemoServ? rindolf: the bugs annoy me, a lot, but I never get around to actually trying to fix them Zuu: maybe I should call myself "shlomi". Americans will think I'm a girl. yeah, it kinda have a girlish sound to it rindolf: call yourself shloma, dutch people will think you're over sixty and female dazjorz: heh. let me rephase that dutch people will think you're female... and over sixty (oma = grandma) dazjorz: ah. kloot. In Hebrew nouns that end with "ah" tend to be feminine. shlomah? Seriously now, if I change my nick it will be to shlomif. let's change our nicks at the same time Well, in Shlomi's case it would be Shlomith. I will be sjors, you will be shlomif dazjorz: OK. * rindolf is now known as shlomif shit, now I have to what does shlimif even mean ? * dazjorz is now known as sjors Zuu: shlomi = his first name, f = the first letter of his last name sjors: hi. Zuu: shlomi fish. hi shlomif Hi sjors where does rindolf come into it? sjors: my nick is longer than yours. oh lol, and i just said his name sound girly :P * Zuu pat pats shlomif ^^ tommy_the-dragon: Rindolf was a dwarven warrior I played in AD&D. ahh ok * shlomif gives Zuu his tomato back. :< Since I'm no longer a reindeer. shlomif: that's just to compensate against something you have that's way shorter than mine sjors: LOL. sjors++ Erhmm.. shlomif! how come there's this big hole in it? sorry... my bad Hehe * shlomif doesn't like raw tomatoes. But I eat them with pasta, etc. Or as meat sauce. or in sandwiches sjors: anyway, welcome to ##programming or on reindeer nose sjors: I'll probably revert to "rindolf" after next disconnect. Zuu: after you cook the entire reindeer. * shlomif is a reindeer cannibal. Well, rindolf is. yes, but he ran away I also like dried and olive oiled tomatoes. shlomif: I just changed my clients' settings to reconnect as sjors, too Well, I think I'll go to sleep. sjors: ah. shlomif: it'll probably take a while to "adapt" to sjors instead of dazjorz sjors: well, enjoy your new nick. and I still have dazjorz.com, and not sjors.anything * Zuu tugs shlomif in thanks ;) Zuu: thanks. * Zuu quicly squeeses a fresh tomato onto shlomif's nose shlomif: sjors.biz and sjors.mobi at most * shlomif doesn't have rindolf.{com,org,net} etc. sjors: maybe sjors.in I got a shlom.in sjors.indahou.se sjors: heh. sjors.ac, sjors.ag, sjors.am, sjors.at hehe sjors.me sjors.pl, too bad i don't really do perl anymore sjors: there's also .sh sjors.sh, too bad I don't really do shell script a lot Or .im sjors.tv, too bad I don't really watch.. do you own a mobile? .tv are pretty costly. meh I don't like sjors. anyway, so I'll just keep dazjorz for everything yeah whats with that (the price of .tv)? tommy_the-dragon: it's the foundation of the economy of Tuvaly. -- Reindeers, Tomatoes and Normalising Nicks -- ##programming, Freenode % * rindolf tries to think what can cause the KDE 4 SNAFU on his user. And hopefully to avoid bissecting the KDE 4 config tree. snafu... that wounds like a delicious cake :D *sounds Zuu: Situation Normal - All F****ed up. :/ * Zuu gives the snafu cake to Dmage :D Dmage, just eat the cake already Zuu, are you hate my english? ;) i hate your non-english I english your hate xD Dmage, but i dont hate you! :D and now I can do that Zuu, learn russian then! :) Hehe Dmage, i think you'd hate my russion far more than i would ever hate your english Spasiva. xD learn 'Eto huinya!' * Zuu steals the snafu cake back from Dmage and gives it to rindolf instead and apply everywhere * rindolf eats the SNAFU cake :D * rindolf eats Zuu's Danish too. Noooh! * rindolf loves Zuu's Danish. Yum yum. tis mine! My daaaanish :'( My precioussssssssss! tis gone :< -- SNAFU Cake -- ##programming, Freenode % What should I do now? I'll work on Text-Qantor. It's so great not to have a job. yeah, if someone else pays for the food it sure is :D also, i dont really understand much of what you just told me :P * Zuu puts a stick into the Text-Qantor Zuu: Qantor == Qantor ain't no TeX/Troff oh really. It's a typesetting system I'm working on. * Zuu hates the name it makes me kinda mad actually :/ Zuu: :-) Zuu: maybe it will grow on you. Zuu: some people I know named a browser suckass. :( I refused to work on it. see that's a name! Zuu: heh. i didnt mean that btw :) suckass is kinda... unkind OK, now I should write an http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/XSLT/ transformation. I'll start from something I already have. But the "X ain't no " is just a lame naming convention imho yeah, work on some XSLT facts :D Zuu: just call it Qantor then. Without the mnemonics. but anyone interrested will learn that it's an abbreviation just by the fact that it's recursive makes me want to kill myself a little bit more :P Zuu: do me a break and kill yourself. :> Less Zuus - more grass for evil reindeers like me to feed on. -- What is Qantor? -- ##programming, Freenode % Pythack now was able to get the fc-solve test suite up and running. eh?! * Zuu solves rindolf Zuu: http://fc-solve.berlios.de/ Zuu: I am not solvable. I am Turing hard. :S * Zuu never heard of anything called 'turing hard' lol. Zuu's probabilistic, so maybe he can solve you. but i guess i have now Formal definition of Turing hard: blah blah blah hard blah blah Turing blah. Hahahaha :D Wikipedia: Given a set X in P(N), a set A in N is called Turing hard for X if X <=_T A for all X in X. If additionally A is in X, then A is called Turing complete for X. Does that clarify? (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_reduction for the actual math symbols) * joeyadams assumes you get the point yeah, i think i'll have to put significant time into that, for me to comprehend it :) but maybe i will, some day :P My point is that people like to use mumbo jumbo to describe more concise mumbo jumbo. E.g. A problem is NP-hard if it is at least as hard as all the problems in NP. i undersstand enough of it, to be fairly confident that rindolf being turing hard, will not say much about his ability to be solved I'm guessing Turing-hard means you can't solve a problem with a Turing machine (e.g. the halting problem) (substitute Turing machine with "your computer" :) ) no, turing hard has something to do with expressiveness okay, Zuu > joeyadams, so I can't help you :) * Zuu tickles joeyadams ^^ A delicious apple is any fruit ∈ apple that is at least as tasty as any other fruit ∈ apple. In other words, apples are in the set of recursively nommable fruits. joeyadams: what's up? I'm babbling. joeyadams: Apple is one of my least favourite fruits. * Zuu watches a number of apples that recursively NOM's eathother It tends to be too commonplace. Or simpleton. whoops, my logic is incorrect Only delicious apples are ∈ the nommable fruits. (recursively is just a word you throw in to sound smart) * Zuu NOMs joeyadams :> joeyadams: a friend of one of my sisters said that Apple is his favourite fruit. Ta-zuu! * joeyadams has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection nommed by peer)) yeah, unfortunately a lot of people throw with a lot of words to sound smart :/ my favourite fruit is a recursive banana! although it certainly helps to use complex terminology to solve complex problems. As Aristophanes said, "High thoughts must have high language." .. along with immutable polymorphic pears Zuu> I guess you have to peel it indefinitely? lol Hahah, yeah :P I tend to eat bananas in deterministic polynomial time. i eat them in linear time, but uses exponential space lol Heh. eww -- Turing Hard -- ##programming, Freenode % --> ecere has joined ##programming yo ecere!! yay, life :) * Zuu tickles ljuwaidah * ljuwaidah punches zuu in the face * Zuu starts crying :'( Fight! Fight! Fight! * Zuu runs home to mommy Let's get ready to rumble!!! * ljuwaidah punches rindolf in the face for encouraging the fight, that is hehe * rindolf uses his Evil Antlers to summon a squadron of Chuck Norrises. oh my! * rindolf unleashes the Chuck Norrises upon ljuwaidah * ljuwaidah uses his anti-chuck-norrise spell those anterls must be the most evil thing in the entire universe *antlers ljuwaidah: your spell only works on one chuck norris at a day. And I have 119 more. Finish him! i wonder what will happen if one Chuck Norris accidently punches another rindolf: then lemme use my duplication spell to make more of myself so THEY can use the spell ljuwaidah: heh. ljuwaidah++ thanks :D ljuwaidah: two can play this game. * rindolf runs his recursive copying spell making lots of Evil rindolf reindeers exponentially. Like Bacteria. darn! i didn't see that coming but you also forgot that if _I_ can duplicate myself then so can my duplicates B-) -- The Ultimate ##programming Showdown -- ##programming, Freenode % --> ispy_ has joined ##programming hi gang. I'm a n00b programmer and think I should learn A and B before C, right? ispy_: General understanding should come before that. std_orb: I have no idea what I'm doing... ispy_: I can see that * ispy_ kicks the dirt... ive been meaning to get into it Is C like JavaScript? Same thing right? ispy_: lol ispy_: Perl is more like C than JS is. rindolf: Never heard of Perl... I should google that. ispy_: use Bing search instead. Or Altavista. rindolf: i see. rindolf, std_orb, tommy_the-dragon ... thanks for the pointers :) ispy_: you should learn Intercal, it's the most expressive language possible. rindolf: Sounds exciting! intercal... lol! haha ok ok ok... I can't continue this... I'm practically laughing my ass off at my desk. :-) hehe -- Emulating a Clueless Newbie -- ##programming, Freenode % Hai all Zuu: hai hai. Zuu: what's up , kit? Zuu: or what are you , I forgot? Hai rindolf :D I am a reindeer. But also a Llama. And a cat. I'm a Zuu And a fish naturally. Zuu: ah , OK. :D * rindolf creates a Zoo of Zuus ^^ Are you the master Zuu? Like Q is the master of the Q's in Star Trek? i think im the only Zuu Oh, one of a kind. Which is kinda sad really :( Who am i supposed to mate with? Reminds me of http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Blue-Rabbit-Log/ideas.xhtml Though I need to add that part. Let me do it now. whatever webserver you use, it doesnt provide the right mimetype... At least IE 8 dont attempt to render the document Zuu: you cannot using IE 8 Zuu: you need Firefox. Zuu: it's application/xml+xhtml Or Opera. well, it indeed is the right mimetype... stupid IE well, my FF crashed, so i just use IE when that happens Zuu: ah. FF crashed? How strange. Maybe you have a bad plugin. It does that around 6 times a day Not an extension - a plugin. Ah, really. Something is wrong in the Zuuniverse. Or Zuumputer. nah, i suspect one of the tabs are just doing some strange stuff memory leaking javascript ro something like that it is kinda starting to annoy me but with 90 - 120 tabs, it would take quite a while to find out what tab it is you might consider starting your articles, or whatever this is, with an introduction telling what it's about Zuu: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Blue-Rabbit-Log/ideas.xhtml#the-angry-demon Zuu: it's not an article - these are random ideas for a screenplay. Zuu: but I'll write an intro. start the page with "Here are some of my random ideas for a screen play im writing:" at LEAST! you cant just jump right into something without giving _any_ indication ow what the reader can expect it simply doesnt make any sense as it is now you could just as well have posted a log of ljuwidah talking :P Zuu: thanks. :) Zuu: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Blue-Rabbit-Log/ideas.xhtml#intro Interactive Web! i think you have forgottoen to define the #intro anchor Zuu: reload. Zuu: it's there. hah, caches... :P :D Pesky things. Evil reindeers don't like caches. Neither do cats. I'm an evil reindeer but a good cat. Hehe Don't know how it works. I guess good and evil are relative. Or actually I wore a helmet of alignment change. -- What kind of animal is a Zuu? -- ##programming, Freenode % Hi rindolf :) Hi Zuu Zuu: I've been thinking that maybe you can find some corresponding Zuus of the appropriate sex in a different dimension. hmmm... interresting! Zuu: are you a heterosexual Zuu or a homosexual one? Im not sure what sex I am. Zuu: ah. :P Zuu: you can look. Zuu: in the mirror or something. Zuu: don't you have obligatory genders in Danish/ ? Like in German, French, etc. Or Hebrew and Arabic. obligatory genders? you mean, the genders in linguistics? * Zuu never understood those but Danish have two i believe, and if i remember correctly there is female and 'none' Zuu: yes, genders in linguistics. i dont remember what which is which though :P Like in Hebrew "Haben Halakh lagan" - the boy went to the garden. "Habath Halkha lagan" - "The girl went to the garden" That almost sounds like allah akbar rindolf, no we dont distinct between the genders of the subject in the danish language our nouns have genders though zuu-nina? like 'house' is one gender and 'car' is another Zuu: of course the question is - what language do Zuus speak natively? rindolf: Of course, Zuu speaks Zuu! Zuuish? The Zulu population also does not speak Zuluish, just Zulu. so if you want to say 'the house' its 'huse_t_' and if you want to say 'the car' its 'bile_n_' c_sphere: Arnavoth (sounds like an Aztec god) is "Hares" (the Rabbit-like mammal) in Hebrew. Zuu: can you understand Swedish? Aemeth rindolf, some :) Zuu: ah. swedish branched from danish afaik same with norwegian yes, Zuu's speak Zuuish nativley :P * rindolf is listening to Hans Zimmer - Jack Sparrow Zuu: ah. Zuuish have few words, all of which is based on words about cake from othre languages :P c_sphere, are you by any chance related to s_cube ? Zuu: ah, what do you use the Hebrew word "עוגיה" (= `ugiyah, cookie) for? "Chocolate chip pie crust marmalade marzipan cookie yum yum!" i use it for cookies baked from a hebrew recipe :P What does it mean in Zuuish? it's hard to really say something in Zuuish... al you can really do is say something equivalent to "COOKIES!!" or "YAY CAKE!" basically, you can only express excitement over different kinds of cakes :P Zuu: do Zuus eat anything except cakes or cookies? There was this one time... wait.. no. That was someone else. -- What can a Zuu do? -- ##programming, Freenode % Chekov: I disagere with what ESR says in TAOUP that you shouldn't apply factor optimisations. I think they can make a very large difference. Chekov: he seems to imply you should wait until computers are fast enough. Problem is people don't want to upgrade and if a competing program (maybe a fork ) is much faster, then some of them will switch. Programs being speedy is one thing that makes me happy. I love all the work the KDE people did in making KDE-4.6.0 fast. rindolf: awesome blog link! And I enjoy the fact that Pidgin is much faster than Kopete (and also less buggy). I've used Kopete for far too long. rindolf: switch to Irssi and Bitlbee! :D vanguard: yes. vanguard: though they failed on Google Wave. osoleve: nah, I like Pidgin. osoleve: it's fast enough for me. osoleve: and I also prefer XChat. but is it nerdy enough? osoleve: I'm not trying to be a Ubergeek. osoleve: real men use Xmonad! Hey, it is not Uber but Über ... :D real programmers use butterflies. real programmers are Tao real programmers flip bits by hand real programmers speak assembly Chuck Norris is a real programmer who implements the most optimised machines for solving a problem out of physical atoms. real programmers use a nice editor and a programming language and get done in less than O(N!) -- Real Programmers -- ##programming, Freenode % tell me how can u print a message without using a semicolon in the printg statement wes_: in C? wes_: do you mean the printf(...) statement? yes wes_: you cannot without using macros I think. wes_: and don't use macros for that. i mean without using a semicolon at the printf statement but you have to use printf only wes_: why would you want to do that? wes_: what do you have against semicolons? Some of my best friends are semicolons. semicolons got me where I am today man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semicolon lulzfish_4: heh. "I owe it all to semicolons." hey rindolf lulzfish_4 Hi amigojapan amigojapan: what's up? * rindolf gives a semicolon to amigojapan * amigojapan returns a whitespace to rindolf amigojapan: that's not fair trade. But I'll treasure the whitespace. rindolf: a whitespace is just as valuable as a semicolon in python :) amigojapan: aren't semicolons optional in Py? rindolf: I think they are rindolf: actually, a whitespace can be as valuable as 2 curly braces :) amigojapan: heh. amigojapan: you need 4 spaces to distinguish stuff properly. rindolf: one thing I never got about python is why they need the : after if and for statements.... * PythonSnake gives a colon to rindolf :) rindolf: actually, I preffer using tabs to 4 spacess... PythonSnake: thanks for the colon. rindolf: lol PythonSnake: I'll give you a « and a » in exchange. lol rindolf: the fact that you dont have a rule to how much white space you must use to indent in python, I think is a bad thing... * PythonSnake finds a interrobang :) rindolf: if it is 4 spaces then fine, but make it a rule so it is consistent ‽ lol ‽ ∴ ‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡ ¿ ₳ ฿ ₵ ¢ ₡ ₢ ₠ $ ₫ ৳ ₯ € ƒ ₣ ₲ ₴ ₭ ℳ ₥ ₦ ₧ ₱ ₰ :) rindolf: oh, now you are speaking spanish amigojapan: :-) all: :) ¡I am! うるさいよ 文字化け Jag förvrängd bullriga איך גאַרבאַלד טומלדיק :) ah, hebrew hir something.... º, ª man, I forgot how to read hebrew amigojapan: איך גאַרבאַלד טומלדיק seems like Yiddish. rindolf: ah, ok.... can you change it into roman letters for me? amigojapan: Ich Garbald Tomldiq. ich would be I I think I only know curse words in yuddish :P ich bin masaru ich bin ein berlinner * rindolf is eating watermelon. rindolf: save a piece for me :) amigojapan: I'll save a semicolon for you. rindolf: For me too. :) rindolf: a semicolon looks alot like twso pits of a watermellon * amigojapan steals PiX3L 's piece -- Give Your Friend a Semicolon Today -- ##programming, Freenode % vinleod, Yes, he wants to find a solution which yields a point 10 units away, your solution yields a point, exactly 7.66044 units away vinleod, Oh wait vinleod, I'm an idiot, didnt factor out cos vinleod, Yes you're right. * Endiannes kicks calculator hehe, I was in the process of writing a python script to prove it. * speedrunnerG55 picks up Endianness calculator NEVER KICK YOUR CALCULATOR Kicking your calculator is a sin At least its not a cos. but you should at least get a tan Heh. -- Calculator -- ##programming, Freenode % Ok so I know javascript, php, perl in some detail. However, I want to become good at one. I was thinking Perl? monsterwizard: roll a die. rindolf the die showed a 7 :S monsterwizard: heh. lol monsterwizard: strange die. throw away the die * rindolf throws the die at hmm * hmm catches die, die, die! * hmm wants to live hmm: but the die wants to die. Take it out of its misery. who knows, even the die isn't ready to die hmm: dice should be diced. dice on ice. yeah, go dice the dice -- The Universal Die -- ##programming, Freenode % * hackerhackingcan (~hackingca@117.202.19.189) has joined ##programming Hi friends I am also new to hacking hackerhackingcan: hi. hackerhackingcan: I hope you mean software development - not computer intrusion. what means intrusion? hackerhackingcan: it means breaking into other people's systems. I want to hack the internet websites like google and facebook hackerhackingcan: hack? can you help please? hackerhackingcan: hack into? yes I am new but I will try and learn but can you help me rindolf? hackerhackingcan: we won't help you break into systems. wut? hack into google? hackerhackingcan: with what? hack into facebook google and internet hackerhackingcan: we build systems - not break them. please? hackerhackingcan: http://catb.org/~esr/writings/unix-koans/script-kiddie.html hackerhackingcan: if you want to learn how to program, we can help you. hackerhackingcan: but trying to break into computer systems will only get you in trouble. I can do programming in html hackerhackingcan: HTML is not a programming language. is that enough for hacking? hackerhackingcan: There's no such things as programming in HTML. I can also do hacks in cmd Ah, a script kiddie. what you mean by scrpt kiddie? ok now I know you all dont want other people to know about hacking so you say like this hackerhackingcan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Script_kiddie so you abused me by calling me script kiddie? When I become a good hacker I will hack you also hackerhackingcan: Good luck with that. bye bye. hackerhackingcan: OK, you have been warned. why warn? hackerhackingcan: try hacking into the IP address 127.0.0.1 hackerhackingcan: I bet you can't log into that computer and delete all of its files. hackerhackingscan: After that, try to DDOS 192.168.1.1 is 127.0.0.1 your ip? why'd you give him my iP ffs? don't try it, you wouldn't get in anyway. I have it locked down tightly hackerhackingcan: So, here's the situation. We don't condone illegal activity. We don't suggest that people attempt illegal activity. We don't like people who do illegal activity. We a programmers. We like to write programs. We like to solve interesting problems. We like to solve interesting puzzles. hackerhackingcan: if you haven't noticed, I've become op. hackerhackingcan: and I can /kick you and /kickban you. hackerhackingcan: Now, if you'd like be a good, productive member of society and learn to program, we can help with that, but we won't spoon feed you either. hahah whose is this ip 192.168.1.1? Your password is admin haha is he for real? Ethelim: I doubt it. 192.168.1.1 I am changing your password then call me kid Ethelim: he seems like a bad troll. But an amusing one. rindolf: depends on how many times you've heard the joke in the recent past dude, you wouldn't get in there. And even if you did all you'd be able to do is reset the guy's connection I will reset it * Ethelim waits for "someone's" closed connection "Quit: Leaving" I saw that coming a mile away/ lol not an actual fell-off-the-internet reasonable exit though oh, and now he's back with a new nick -- From HTML to Hacking Google in Ten Easy Steps -- ##programming, Freenode % so what the point of hashes, can't we just use void pointers to key/val ? oilio: hashes as in hash tables? yes oilio: OK. oilio: they are one way to efficiently implement the dictionary Abstract Data Type (ADT). oilio: a hash table can store more than one key , value pair. yeah, I read about it in the wikipedia oilio: and you can lookup a value based on a key efficiently. Linear search is good enough for everyone. indolf: what if the hole table wont fit in the memory? RAM Swap. Amazon S3. well if no ram and no swap no allocation We have the whole Internet for our tables. well ask reddit how that worked out And remember, /dev/null is web-scale. yea, I store all my data in /dev/null oilio: then you'll need to use a more sophisticated (and slower) data structure that can offload to disk. It is really fast. I use the Boost libraries for /dev/null too. And I use async writes to /dev/null. arubin: heh. don't want to get into resource contention when using /dev/null * rindolf uses /dev/null for backups. only so much null to go around -- /dev/null - the ultra-fast solution for all your storage needs. -- ##programming, Freenode % and ya know. I bet if one distro popped an i in front like iUbunt, iFedora or some jazz about 300 million people would shell out astronomical amounts of money just to have one before anyone else Macs are evil. iCry iDerp iFail iStone iQuack iFap ifap.cum iClean iBarf iReturn iI jparkton: this reminds me of http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-perl-paid-version-of-cpan . iCanHazCheezburger. iSuck. iAmSpartacus. iAmYourFather prolly some new iFag rage iAmLame iBlame -- iSuckLessThanJ -- ##programming, Freenode % marzy: Emacs is not a better vim. They are very different. marzy: I could never get used to Emacs, but have used Vim for many years. rindolf Emacs + Evil mode makes a better vim marzy: does it support all Vim extensions? no, that's why its better. it doesn't come with retarded scripting language!! marzy: well, it's still not 100% compatible with vim. marzy: and Evil is an awful name. Sorry. "The only thing more evil than XSLT is XSLT edited with Emacs Evil mode." ;-) i think it's a good name considering emacs and vi(m) rivalry marzy: of course, I've heard worse - coq and coccinelle. And then there's this guy here who called his programming language Flua which reminds me of Flu and Influenza. rindolf: lol rindolf, flua IDE is not that bad to be fair (at least the little i tried ) dardevelin: didn't say *it* was bad - I said the name was bad. dardevelin: and I could never get it running here. Problems with Py3 and PyQt. rindolf, oh that sucks... :/ dardevelin: yes. rindolf, yeah i know you didn't said it was bad, just as gave you my opinion on it as a side note. sorry i should have made it more explicit :) Of course, Evil is not as bad a name as SLIME, which is another Emacs mode. rindolf, i had troubles with SLIME once and boy i got tired of fighting with it Reportedly it was also the nickname of an internal Microsoft version control system called SLM (that is now largely discontinued). -- A rose by any other name -- ##programming, Freenode % just stumbled across another question. is there an open-source license that prevent anyone from making money off my code? codescience: no there isn't. codescience: it stands against the open source definition. codescience: that would violate the spirit of what most people understand "open source" to mean codescience: people can sell copies of open source software or services related to it. hmmm, i understand codescience: see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html I can legally sell you this copy of the linux kernel...I can charge whaqtever you are willing to pay. Nothing in the license prevents this ssta: will you sell it to me for 5,000 USD? ;-) rindolf: sure ssta: how about for 3,000 USD? rindolf: tell you what, for $10,000 I'll throw in a free copy of FreeBSD ssta: wow, sounds like a good deal. rindolf: hmm, 3000 is a bit low, I don't think I could go that cheap ssta: heh. ssta: how much are you selling the source code of Apache 2.4 for? rindolf: oh, you can have that for free ssta: really? Sucker! rindolf: sure...but the build scripts you have to pay for ssta: OK. ssta: would you be willing to exchange the source of the Linux kernel for three copies of jQuery? I will even throw in a few free Dojo plugins. ssta: he already told us. rindolf: hmm, not sure I want jQuery rindolf: would you happen to have code for a halfway decent RDBMS? I think I could swap for that ssta: I have the source code for MySQL. Not sure if it's half-decent. i run a mysql server. runs good enough for me rindolf: I use MySQL in production quite a lot. It has its flaws, but my use cases never seem to hit them ssta: OK. ssta: so will you exchanges its source code for the Linux kernel? rindolf: sure ssta: sounds good. ssta: you can find the source code of MySQL here - http://www.mysql.com/ rindolf: you can get the linux source from kernel.org ssta: thanks. -- Premium price for free (in either meaning) software. -- ##programming, Freenode % rindolf, I got redirected to your gcc important flags page today and I think you may be missing a few things doomrobo: do you mean the one in the talk? doomrobo: which page are you referring to? rindolf, lemme see http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/W2L/Development/slides/gcc/flags.html - heh, first Google hit for "gcc important flags" At least for me. yeah doomrobo: OK, I did not originate that page originally. ok doomrobo: and it served a certain purpose as material for slides to the Haifa Linux Club's Welcome to Linux series. nice * jrslepak always found it funny that -Wall doesn't turn on all of the warnings . o O ( gcc -Wno-really-I-mean-all ... ) -Wevery-warning-under-the-sun-and-then-some -W42 -Wchuck-norris -Wextra -whipped-cream and of course -WTF jrslepak: :-) -Worse -Worse-is-better -Wat -Whoops -S -Illy -Wabbit Heh. -Wascally-wabbit (which really needs to be the name of a future Ubuntu release) people reading this are probably just shaking their heads hey, at least it's not -fallow-undecidable-instances ¬_¬ -- gcc -Whatever -- ##programming, Freenode % does anyone happen to know what std::allocator.allocate() does when you try to allocate 0 bytes? I get a pointer back but I can't tell what it's pointing at and I can't seem to find anything on the web that gives a difinitive answer Why are you allocating zero bytes? tnzr: the same thing it always returns GeDaMo: we are implementing our own allocator for an assignment, and when asked what we should do if the user tries to allocate 0 bytes, the prof said to find out what std::allocator does and mimic that http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6065814/standard-compliant-custom-allocator oh snap, thanks GeDaMo :) GeDaMo: zero bytes are enough to hold the Complete Works of Shakespeare. Depends on how many monkeys you have to decompress it :P GeDaMo: heh. Of course, I defined a custom decompressor that emits the complete works of Shakespeare on empty input and uses gzip compression otherwise. It's pretty large though. redeemed: compress the decompressor using the same algo errr rindolf Billiard: OK. Billiard: heh. 0 bytes = a decompressor for the entire works of shakespeare -- Shakespeare, compressed -- ##programming, Freenode % Hi all. hi Hello Ruby Tuesday. goodbye ruby tuesday hello emerald thursdays! now i have to choose a precious stone for each day of the week, thanks this is going to take half the night sapphire Sundays Pearl Mondays. Diamond Saturdays. YES! diamond saturday definitely i thought the same thing i guess there's already a gemstone for every month, so this would be seen as kind of a ripoff maybe a metal for every day -- Sunny Diamonds -- ##programming, Freenode % Either our mac server is sending out little electroshocks through his cage and into my foot or he is just vibrating really strange... Zepo: a mac server? rindolf: jeh, we have a macserver running a vm with a ubuntu server Zepo: hmm... interesting. rindolf: Most people react like "what the...?!" Zepo: next you'll tell me that you have an HP/UX Desktop. rindolf: I am not that crazy, my chef made this...thing... -- Using the right tool for the job -- ##programming, Freenode % rindolf: How long have you got on the book? rindolf, did you check out the new game of thrones episode? Jude: no, I don't watch Game of Thrones. Jude: I did see this on Slashdot - http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/03/31/1347248/hbo-says-game-of-thrones-piracy-is-a-compliment . Jude: quite encouraging. why Jude: what is encouraging? Jude: I mean that some television producers are having a clue about piracy. Jude: I think the MPAA is likely going to follow the lead of the RIAA and endorse the Internet. Jude: well, there's still a long way to go with even music online. rindolf: "How to win friends and..." cheeseduck: ah, that. MAking slow progress in it. cheeseduck: I thought it was a book *I* was writing. Lately, I've been writing books and screenplays and stuff more than I've been reading them. :-D "I've been reading a lot of scripts lately." "You know, it's cheaper than going to the movies." cheeseduck: heh. cheeseduck: some people find the screenplays funny as they are. cheeseduck: they have good imagination. I always found the standard they are supposed to be written in weird. Kind of wasteful in space. cheeseduck: for other people, it ruins the experience. cheeseduck: yes, maybe. I see rindolf, did you catch the walking dead's finale? cheeseduck: I have something of my own - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/projects/XML-Grammar/Fiction/ Jude: not familiar with "Walking Dead". Jude: horror drama - I have a soft stomach. Jude: I prefer humour or drama/humour or sci-fi/humour or sci-fi/humour/drama or stuff like that. k, sorry to have bothered you Jude: I watched three episodes of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, and so far - I'm game. Jude: you did not bother me. never seen it Jude: do you watch My Little Pony? Jude: ah, I love it so far. heard it can get quite rough more nudity and violence than spartacus and game of thrones combined One episode involved a lot of songs, which I disliked. Jude: heh, LOL. Jude++ Jude: it's directed at little girls. Jude: so it's a pretty clean show. yeah I know I was kidding Jude: if you want incest and violence, then look no further than the Jewish bible. there are a lot of dubbing sections of the show to go with metal songs or violent scripts etc rindolf, I'm jewish Jude: reportedly, it was quite realism then (the Bible I mean). Jude: ah, nice. So am I. and I couldn't agree more I have to go watch game of thrones Jude: yes, you need to process the Bible a lot to get to the good stuff. will talk to you in an hour Jude: enjoy. yeah, in Israel we have to take bible classes in high school Maybe I'll prepare a fortune out of this conversation. and elementary school too Jude: I'm Israeli too. really? Jude: I live in Tel Aviv. where do you teach Jude: yes. me too.. Jude: I don't teach. don't tell me you live near rabin sq. Jude: well, I teach stuff via blogging and Internet writing. Jude: no, but I go there often. Jude: I live in Gimmel. ramat aviv? Jude: yes. that's close to TAU do you study there? Jude: yes. CS? Jude: no, I just live with my parents. Jude: I graduated from EE from the Technion. cool Jude: http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/computers/education/opinion-on-the-technion/ that's your blog? Jude: it's my home site. cool Jude: a good old fashioned Web 1.0 site in modern clothing. Like valid HTML, modern CSS, some JS enhancements, etc. But still static HTML pages. I have some blogs on livejournal.com/etc. do you know a guy called nimrod? Jude: there are many people called Nimrod - it's a common name. don't want to give him in on public chat Jude: not sure I know a Nimrod off hand. nevermind then Jude: OK, feel free to PM. Jude: many Israeli names can get confusing. OK. Jude: I can easily come to Rabin sq. - there's a bus there from here. he's my brother, he lives close to you and he's also an open-source enthusaist I know there are plenty of them Jude: ah, that's great. I take them to uni on a daily basis I live right by rabin sq. Jude: so you study in TAU? yeah Jude: TAU has tons of hot chicks. there are some Jude: there aren't a lot of people on the streets of Gimmel. Jude: so you study CS? no way maths Jude: ah, I see. Jude: maths... I know one or two nice looking girls, but I usually get put off by their personalities Jude: I think maths is taught wrong in several aspects. Jude: ah. I've only been attracted to one specimen of the female sex ever in my entire life Jude: ah, really? I dunno, I agree when you speak of highschool maths I like university maths so far my professors are really nice Jude: well, there are a lot of girls studying more humane stuff. Jude: http://blogs.perl.org/users/shlomi_fish/2013/03/ann-my-transition-from-software-developer-to-writerentertaineramateur-philosopherinternet-celebrity.html I generally don't like people who study humane subjects (I don't consider philosophy to be as such though) Jude: I've made a transition from a mathematician to a software developer and now I'm more of a writer/entertainer/amateur-philosopher. you didn't like the way it was taught? Jude: like which way? Jude: you mean maths? yes Jude: well: 1. No pairwise work. Big mistake. 2. Need to memorise a lot of silly stuff. Why?? 3. Maybe allow some sloppiness. Make maths more humane. that's why you got philosophy maths can't afford to be sloppy There's something poetical about many maths' proofs. the intuitive ideas behind them are beautiful but intuition can be misleading that's why you have to be really strict Jude: yes, that's why I think we should now move into proof verifier realm. if you want your proof to be valid Jude: right. Jude: but I was once criticised for this - http://ladypine.livejournal.com/24574.html Jude: thing is - not everything should be strict when teaching. Jude: I agree that mathematical intuition can be misleading, but it's still a good thing to have. Jude: thing is I think many mathematicians now require a lot of dedication and selling their soul to the devil, which is turning them into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Nemo -s. it's not a very formal proof Jude: when I studied EE most of my courses were with open material, and I could do pairwise work, which I enjoyed. but seems to hold Jude: yes. I guess you are right Jude: :-D that the concept is more important than the formalization but a lot of my professors agree with you and would give much more attention to grasping the important concept, and understanding intuition behind proofs Jude: I'm always right. Unless I claim that "A is not-A". But Chuck Norris would be right even then. lol Hah! A new Chuck Norris factoid. <3 it's been nice chatting with you, I really have to go now, I need to watch GoT and then go to bed and wake up in 4 hours Jude: my father and I now have an ongoing Chuck Norris meme. Jude: bye, have fun, and good night. rindolf, what's that Jude: what? the Chuck Norris meme Jude: well, we say stuff like "you're my most Chuck Norris dad." or "I taught Chuck Norris how to fight." It's a personal running joke. Well, a family-wide one. We have our own jargon. heh Most families do. I'm not close enough to any member of my family to do that Ah. talk to you later, ciao Bye. rindolf: Douglas Hofstadter gave a talk about how mathematicians aren't as rigorous as they claim to be and that they use a lot of analogical thinking Nisstyre-laptop: ah, OK. it was at the university of Toronto I missed it sadly though Nisstyre-laptop: ah. Nisstyre-laptop: was it filmed? but I can basically tell you what he said more or less rindolf: there was a webcast Nisstyre-laptop: OK. Nisstyre-laptop: ah. not sure if it can be accessed still Nisstyre-laptop: ah. <+Nisstyre-laptop> but if you read either GEB or I Am a Strange Loop you'll get it Nisstyre-laptop: I read GEB. Nisstyre-laptop: GEB was a nice book, but I knew a lot of what he was saying there. Nisstyre-laptop: I still enjoyed the drama stuff in the middle with Achilles, the Tortoise and their friends. rindolf: you had the idea of using PM as a metaphor for systems of thinking and the mind? because that's what the book is about Nisstyre-laptop: PM? principia mathematica the formal system constructed by Russell and Whitehead Nisstyre-laptop: I didn't think of it. Nisstyre-laptop: yes, I know. the entire book is his theory of consciousness and how there are levels of thinking Nisstyre-laptop: well, I read "I think, therefore I laugh" before I read GEB. you can be less of a thinking being, etc... Yes, he says that consciousness requires thinking in loops, or self-reflection. Well, it's an informal theory of consciousness. it requires what he calls a strange loop and there can be many levels to it more levels == what we think of as more human or more conscious beings so PM actually is able to self reflect to an extent although it requires a human to interpret it I believe, that creating artificial intelligence/artificial consciousness won't be easy to do, will require a lot of complex code, and will likely be faulty (have its own will, make mistakes, not run as quickly as more specialised code, etc.). Nisstyre-laptop: yes. depends what you mean by AI there are several different definitions the first human like robot will be build in japan, the first artifical intelligence in the us heh hahaha the church-turing hypothesis would seem to imply it's possible, at least in principle to create "strong" AI although I intensely dislike that term since it tries to say that any system of thinking that doesn't work exactly the same as a human one isn't AI which is BS you guys are all worried about intelligence, I think that will be the easy part. Then comes the important stuff: giving it a sense of humor. so there was the idea that consciousness is associated with information flow, and that "more" information flow is "More" consciousness, a continuum like gravity... but gravity can produce a qualitatively different effect past a certain level (black holes..) so the "loop" is where information flow becomes qualitatively different ? doomlord: have you read GEB? it would be the ability a system has to observe itself, and encode the system itself in the system in otherwords self reflection I don't know many people who can be truly accused of having their own thoughts i dont thinkso but i have some related quotes from somewhere but can a system only approximate itself principia mathematica has that ability can a computer emulate itself... as Goedel showed you can encode formulas in PM as formulas in PM doomlord: yes but to what practical extent what is that supposed to mean? nature has many 'feedback loops' involving information physical limitations result in a hard limit of feedback loops whats GEB, links? if you point a camera at a mirror eventually it will "stop" doomlord: it's a book Godel, Escher, Bach ah google reveals but the sequel is more clear on what it's about I Am A Strange Loop ok sounds interestign doomlord: anyway, if you nest implementations of a computer in a computer eventually there will be a limit imposed by the physical situation i.e. the memory and processor speed only for limited thinkers it's like entropy, only for people who are afraid to think :P but dont physical systems also have practical limitations yes but those are not what we imagine them to be if only we knew the meaning of life, that would make things so much easier how? I think the whole "AIs spawning AIs" dream is not a good strategy for doing software dev. I think programming is here to stay. It's not like humans can efficiently do what a dedicated polynomial time program can. even humans get programmed, lol doomlord: yes. that new immortality project had some interesting videos doomlord: a large part of human technology is mental. doomlord: in fact, we can no longer survive without our mental technology. We couldn't for thousands of years. oh but we can just need a favorable environment cultural template = human OS not mine gde33: you can survive without your mental technology? Even without conceptual thought? not sure what you mean isn't that what all the other species do? i saw some TED talk trying to explain the difference between chinese and western spending/saving habits in the way the language encourages people to think about time supposedly chinese language makes it harder to think of past,present,future seperately languages can be really weird all languages have the word "argument" but some want it to have aditional meanings, I believe in china an argument is equal to disobedience. lol huh? in english it is a kind of fight 争 is a dispute 争论 is an argument or debate I cant think of good examples, I used to know a girl who knew many languages she showed me how some things are badly broken in some languages is it true japanese can't say "no", they have to repeat the question in negative.. thats what we were told when learning but they must have a word for no surely doomlord: there is "Hai" for Yes and "iie" for no so its just impolite to say "no" i guess * Belxjander is living in Japan doomlord: you lose context... doomlord: in English you don't repeat hah no but in Japanese you do gde33: depends on the person... my mother and father thought nothing of explaining politeness to me and will happilly talk overtop me when I am speaking gde33: I only know (Modern) Hebrew, English, some mostly forgotten Written Arabic, and some French (which I'm now trying to regain). I have also run into the same from Chinese, Japanese, American, European AND African people I have met gde33: well, I also know bits of other languages like Spanish, Russian, German, etc. gde33: I know that in Hebrew we have compulsive genders for objects, so we don't care about phrasing sentences in a gender-neutral form, which is an English obsession. gde33: I think it is parodied in this book - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinny_Legs_and_All_%28novel%29 (great one, BTW - taught me a lot). heh languages with sexism built in.. gender all the way through some languages are also more emotional than others italians are hilarious so much enthusiasm it makes you think something is going on gde33: spoken or written and the correct manner for if you are addressing "up/peer/down" the social ladder with regards respect... yes Belxjander: does that apply to many words? -- ##programming, Freenode % I need open source remote desktop in j2me user2013: hi. user2013: you again? I need open source remote desktop in j2me I need open source remote desktop in j2me user2013: we heard you. user2013: I need an open-source, free rocket launcher in either VBScript or Batch! can do atamagawarui: heh. atamagawarui: I prefer it in AutoCad's AutoLisp. VBscript 3+ years experience, team can perform your task quik time 300 dollars paypal atamagawarui: or in PDP-10 Assembly. rindolf: haha i guarantee if you put that on freelancer offers will come sksupp: lol, to whom are you going to outsource the task? i know i'll assign it as a project for this java class i TA -- No problem there… -- ##programming, Freenode