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Info about Shlomi Fish’s Qoheleth Story
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The Fortunes Themselves
##English log about “Who the hell was Qoheleth”
| messa4 | hi rindolf |
| rindolf | messa4: hi, welcome to ##English . |
| rindolf | messa4: where we discuss everything and anything - mostly in English. |
| messa4 | whats hypersexual? haha never heard this term before |
| rindolf | messa4: a hypersexual is someone with a large sex drive. |
| messa4 | haha |
| rindolf | messa4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersexuality |
| messa4 | thats good. that means that u are healthy male |
| rindolf | messa4: yes. |
| messa4 | totally normal. thats why ppl should get married. otherwise u will go insane haha |
| rindolf | messa4: I think I hit second puberty now at close to 36. |
| rindolf | messa4: my first one was at 18. |
| rindolf | messa4: heh. |
| messa4 | i think that most man are like that |
| messa4 | including me |
| messa4 | so bassicly |
| messa4 | if u get job u should be married hehe |
| messa4 | for me lack of job is only reason why im single for example. money is the key |
| rindolf | messa4: I have a story in mind about the guy who wrote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastes , whom after writing it (while being young and not-yet-married) becomes the talk of his city (= Damascus), and every single woman there wants him for herself, which drives him mad. |
| messa4 | why mad?! :D |
| messa4 | i would be happy haha |
| rindolf | messa4: thing is - it was one of the best pieces of philosophy that Damascus has seen for years. |
| rindolf | messa4: well, he is Jewish and does not want to have sex with virgins. |
| rindolf | messa4: which is forbidden. |
| messa4 | WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAt |
| messa4 | WHAAAT |
| messa4 | so how they loose their virignity?! |
| rindolf | messa4: after getting married to a virgin. |
| rindolf | messa4: and having sex with her. |
| rindolf | messa4: it's even more complicated for a Priest. |
| rindolf | But he is from the tribe of Jehudah. |
| messa4 | im cofuzed |
| rindolf | messa4: his family was Jewish as far as he could tell. |
| messa4 | so he dont want to sleep with virgins AT ALL? or just BEFORE MARRIAGE? |
| rindolf | messa4: just before marriage. |
| messa4 | ahh then its ok |
| messa4 | so why not just marry and divorce like thousands of times haha |
| messa4 | if every single woman wants him |
| messa4 | i would do that :d |
| messa4 | you got divorces in judaism? |
| mollies | rindolf, hi |
| rindolf | messa4: anyway, eventually he goes to the house of his friends, who are Greek, with whom he made the bet of being able to write there. |
| rindolf | messa4: and he meets there their younger sister. |
| rindolf | mollies: hi. |
| rindolf | messa4: we have divorces, yes. |
| messa4 | rindolf: tell me more. what he do with that sister hahaah. thats neat story |
| rindolf | messa4: he can also marry more than one girl (up to reason) but he wants to marry a Jewess (so he'll have Jewish children) |
| messa4 | thats intresting |
| messa4 | i never know that jews can have more then one wife |
| messa4 | knew* |
| rindolf | messa4: this sister resembles my own, and is quite oblivious to social norms. |
| rindolf | messa4: well, they no longer can usually. |
| messa4 | but i mean from religion perspective. not law |
| rindolf | messa4: some Jews are given explicit permission for that, but it's an exception. |
| messa4 | permission by who? |
| rindolf | messa4: yes, the Bible allows that. |
| messa4 | thats so intersting |
| rindolf | messa4: permission by the Rabinnat. |
| messa4 | i never ever heard about it before. total ignorance |
| rindolf | messa4: one of the European Rabbis decided to prevent polygamy. |
| rindolf | messa4: which was accepted globally eventually. |
| rindolf | messa4: bigamy is one wife too many. |
| messa4 | but how one rabbi can change the meaning of bible[or whatever is used for this law]? |
| messa4 | thats one thing that i hate about modern religions: ppl are modyfing it |
| messa4 | unacepptable for me |
| rindolf | messa4: anyway, so this sister, which I have nicknamed Horkeneah, sort of empathises with him, and tells him that she thought that the Scroll of Qoheleth was "allright' and better than the usual crap. |
| rindolf | messa4: thing is: they talked to her as a baby, and taught her Greek and Aramic and she also learned to read and write, and is super-intelligent, and stuff like that. |
| rindolf | messa4: and she's become a persona non-grata in several of the schools of philosophy in the city, for criticising what was said there. |
| rindolf | messa4: and as it turns out she is actually Damascus' Alpha Female. |
| rindolf | She had many suitors who proposed to her, but she rejected them all. |
| rindolf | he asks her if she's a Lesbian, and she tells him that's not up her alley. |
| messa4 | WAIT. whats "Scroll of Qohelet" |
| rindolf | And then he (= Joseph, the guy who wrote Ecclesiastes) suddenly falls in love with her and asks her if she loves him. |
| messa4 | and what she said? |
| rindolf | So she tells him that she doesn't but she's really infatuated with him, and thinks the scroll was awesome, and that she also thinks that love in marriage is overrated. |
| rindolf | messa4: Qoheleth is the Hebrew name for Ecclesiastes. It is the original name. |
| rindolf | messa4: the story is called “So who the hell was Qoheleth?” |
| rindolf | And it's also the opening story. |
| rindolf | And it's also the opening line. |
| messa4 | ok |
| messa4 | what she said?! |
| messa4 | so she said NO in general? |
| messa4 | and what he said then? |
| rindolf | He's getting asked that by a fellow Jew, who tells him that writing such good work of philosophy, although blasphemous was a huge "respect" for the Jews. |
| messa4 | please dont tell me thats the end of story |
| rindolf | messa4: no, she said yes. |
| rindolf | messa4: it's not. |
| messa4 | ahh ok :) |
| messa4 | so they got married without love? |
| rindolf | messa4: anyway, she tells him that her family was full of infidelity and outer-marriage relationships and other stuff like that - all because of love. |
| messa4 | thats kinda ok if they are religious |
| messa4 | ok. i see where this is going |
| rindolf | messa4: while in his side, people did not expect to remain in love forever, and just stayed married. |
| rindolf | messa4: so it works better that way. |
| rindolf | messa4: eventually, she falls in love with him too. |
| messa4 | that might be true actually |
| messa4 | haha |
| rindolf | messa4: anyway, she converts to Judaism and then they get married. |
| messa4 | so why u think that love is evil?! |
| rindolf | And then they travel to Alexandria. |
| messa4 | ohh shit its not the end?! : |
| rindolf | messa4: well, it's more like an elaborate joke. |
| messa4 | ok im lisetning |
| rindolf | messa4: the Love == Evil and Evil == Love. |
| rindolf | messa4: well, most of the story is their trip through Phoenicia, Haifa and the Carmel heights, and later on Jaffa. |
| rindolf | messa4: she becomes ill at Jaffa, and Joseph treats her (he's also a doctor) |
| messa4 | but they got married, in love AND in religous way. so where is the evil? |
| rindolf | messa4: and her life is spared. |
| messa4 | Jaffa - like oranges? :D |
| rindolf | messa4: that's something eles, unrelated. |
| rindolf | messa4: yes, the older city south of Tel Aviv. |
| rindolf | messa4: are you European? |
| rindolf | messa4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa |
| messa4 | i know its a city. but its very famous for Jaffa oranges |
| rindolf | messa4: yes. |
| rindolf | messa4: not sure they grow a lot of oranges there any more. |
| messa4 | i never knew that its in israel |
| rindolf | Jaffa oranges is a brand. |
| rindolf | messa4: heh. |
| messa4 | you know whole palestine-israel thing issues :) |
| messa4 | we are kinda behind here |
| rindolf | messa4: Israel now imports some citrus fruit because it's cheaper to import them, because those from Israel cost more than the imports. |
| rindolf | messa4: behind? |
| messa4 | behind with all news |
| messa4 | things like map of israel |
| messa4 | etc |
| messa4 | its changed a lot in past 40 years |
| messa4 | but nvm |
| messa4 | its shame that u have to import oranges. goverment should substitude them |
| rindolf | messa4: well, that's life. |
| rindolf | messa4: well, not sure about Oranges, but we have many other citrus fruit. |
| rindolf | messa4: what do you mean by "substitude" them? |
| messa4 | goverment should pay the farmers some premium. for example 1$ per 5kg of oranges |
| messa4 | so they could compete with prices of cyprus/whatever oranges |
| messa4 | most farmers in european union are getting paid by goverment in such way |
| messa4 | otherwise we would be flooded by cheap food from china or whatever |
| messa4 | and farmers would bankrupt |
| rindolf | messa4: anyway, the story will have a lot of "into-the-future" stuff like the Arabian warfare, cognitive therapy of treating depression, and a Jewish priest they meet in Jaffa who had been practising throwing knives, and throws one a centimetre from Joseph. |
| messa4 | haha. im waiting for my own CBT therapy haha |
| rindolf | messa4: which causes Horkenah->Rivkah to first feel afraid, and then lustful. |
| messa4 | whats Horkenah? |
| rindolf | messa4: that's the name of the girl he marries. |
| messa4 | ahh ok :D |
| rindolf | messa4: his sister in effect - of Greek descent. |
| messa4 | anyway. it might be grt be great story but its a lottlebit too complex for average people i think :) |
| messa4 | be great* |
| messa4 | littlebit* |
| rindolf | messa4: I think one reason the Jewish scriptures survived intact was that every Jewish scholar was required to memorise the whole thing. |
| rindolf | Like we now have with git. |
| rindolf | messa4: yeah, maybe. |
| mollies | rindolf, support your economy, buy local fruits :P |
| rindolf | messa4: I have some more accessible stuff at http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/stories/ |
| rindolf | mollies: heh. |
| messa4 | rindolf: i always though that jews have their old scriptures preserved. |
| rindolf | mollies: I drink quite a lot of Orange Juice and lemonade. |
| messa4 | mollies: hehe yeah |
| rindolf | messa4: we do. Most of them at least. |
| rindolf | messa4: some of them were lost. |
| mollies | i don't drink orange juice but i eat oranges |
| rindolf | messa4: there are much fewer corpora in Hebrew, Aramaic, Persian, etc. than in Greek or Latin. |
| rindolf | messa4: in part because the Christians copies Greek and Latin all across Europe which was never united under a single reign. |
| rindolf | messa4: while the Near East suffered a lot of destruction. |
| messa4 | rindolf: tell me more about marriage. So jews can marry multiple woman if they have permission yes? that permission is from local priest/scholar or its like some top scholar in country? |
| binders | there's the perseus corpora for greek, latin and arabic |
| rindolf | messa4: well, it depends if you're a religious Jew. |
| messa4 | religous |
| messa4 | not by the law but religion |
| rindolf | messa4: and even religious Jewish men can have affairs with divorcees. |
| rindolf | messa4: OK. |
| rindolf | messa4: in general, you can only marry one woman at a time. |
| rindolf | messa4: but there are very few excpetions. |
| messa4 | for example? |
| rindolf | messa4: the Jewish religion often discriminates against men or against women. |
| messa4 | rindolf: thats ok. just tell me. i want to know facts no- no judgment :) |
| rindolf | messa4: OK. |
| rindolf | messa4: I'm not an authority about the Jewish Halachah. |
| rindolf | I mean the Jewish tradition. |
| messa4 | thats ok. just tell me what u know |
| rindolf | messa4: the English wikipedia has pretty good coverage. |
| rindolf | messa4: I cannot tell you everything. |
| messa4 | just tell me those few exceptions that u know :) |
| rindolf | messa4: some men and women have dedicated their life to study Judaism, and there are still things they don't know. |
| rindolf | messa4: OK. |
| rindolf | messa4: the son or daughter of a Jewish woman is Jewish. |
| rindolf | messa4: on the other hand, the son or daughter of a Jewish man is not necessarily one. |
| rindolf | messa4: and it gets wackier with adoptions. |
| rindolf | According to the Jewish tradition, a Jewess must not give away her offspring. |
| rindolf | And it's hard to know what happens if she does. |
| rindolf | messa4: there's also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofer , which were once considered verboten for females. |
| rindolf | messa4: moreover, homosexual intercourse among men is forbidden in the Bible, but not among two females. |
| messa4_ | got disconnected |
| rindolf | messa4_: so did I , heh. |
| messa4_ | what u typed after "And it's hard to know what happens if she does." yes u got too |
| rindolf | messa4_: <rindolf> messa4: there's also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofer , which were once considered verboten for females. |
| rindolf | * messa4_ (pawelsz@faeroes.sdf.org) has joined |
| rindolf | <rindolf> messa4: moreover, homosexual intercourse among men is forbidden in the Bible, but not among two females. |
| rindolf | messa4_: BTW, a woman can become a Rav. |
| messa4_ | haha thats crazy |
| messa4_ | whats "rav" ? |
| rindolf | messa4_: a Rav is a Jew who can hold ceremonies. |
| rindolf | messa4_: like marry people, etc. |
| messa4_ | like rabbie? |
| rindolf | messa4_: a Rabbi is something else - it's a community leader. |
| messa4_ | ok |
| rindolf | messa4_: though these terms are confused. |
| messa4_ | but nvm. so what about polygamy? in what sitations its allowed |
| rindolf | messa4_: a RAv is something like an M.A. in Judaism - requires a lot of study. |
| messa4_ | rindolf: for me its totally new. i never heard about Rav before. like most ppl in europe propably :| |
| rindolf | messa4_: my friend's wife became a Rav and got an M.A. in the process. |
| rindolf | messa4_: OK. |
| messa4_ | but lets go back to polygamy |
| mollies | lol |
| messa4_ | without all background stories hehe |
| rindolf | messa4_: there isn't a lot of work as a Rav, so she was looking for a job. |
| rindolf | messa4_: OK. |
| rindolf | messa4_: well, a woman cannot have more than one husband. |
| rindolf | messa4_: and the child of a married woman from her non-husband cannot be married. |
| mollies | rindolf, i dont think polygamy has ever been allowed |
| rindolf | mollies: it was. |
| messa4_ | cant be married by NO ONE? |
| mollies | but anyways, i need some zzz |
| rindolf | mollies: in the Near East. |
| rindolf | mollies: King Solomon had 200 wives and 800 mistresses. |
| mollies | rindolf, people do it, but it's now allowed in the OT |
| mollies | now/not |
| mollies | night |
| rindolf | mollies: OT? |
| rindolf | mollies: night. |
| Maxdamantus | Old trout |
| cntrational | g'night mollies |
| Maxdamantus | testiment* |
| rindolf | Some states in .us now allow polygamy due to Mormonism. |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: testament. |
| * smgs808 | (Smorgasboa@unaffiliated/smorgasboard) has joined |
| messa4_ | mollies: im asking from ONLY religious perspective [not by the law of common life now] in what situations polygamy is allowed in judaism |
| Maxdamantus | Yeah, that. |
| smgs808 | .g |
| la_fen | smgs808: .g what? |
| smgs808 | .g 1234567891 http://indianrail.gov.in/pnr_Enq.html |
| la_fen | smgs808: http://adventureanytime.blogspot.com/2012/12/pnr-information.html |
| messa4_ | rindolf: so anyway. when polygamy for man is allowed? [except when he is a Kind Solomon :)] |
| messa4_ | King* |
| * messa4 | has quit (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| messa4_ | i just need short answer haha. for example "u can marry 20 woman that you found during war etc. or: u can marry 20 orphans etc] |
| messa4_ | straight to the point |
| smgs808 | .g http://indianrail.gov.in/pnr_Enq.html 1234561115 |
| rindolf | messa4_: under very special circumstanses. |
| la_fen | smgs808: No results found for 'http://indianrail.gov.in/pnr_Enq.html 1234561115'. |
| cntrational | apparently they released a translation patch for Tales of the Tempest, the worst Tales of game |
| messa4_ | rindolf: such as? im asking about them since 30 minutes :) |
| rindolf | messa4_: there was something about a Jewish scholar who married someone who could only stay in the Land of Israel, and when he moved to .us was given permission to marry another woman. |
| cntrational | http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=52514229&postcount=49 |
| rindolf | messa4_: and she was left in Israel alone. |
| Richard_Cavell | rindolf: Why could she only stay in Israel? |
| rindolf | messa4_: that's the only case I heard of. |
| messa4_ | rindolf: thank you |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: family mysticism. |
| Richard_Cavell | ok |
| rindolf | messa4_: sorry for delaying the answer. |
| messa4_ | no problem :D |
| Richard_Cavell | Are we looking at war, by the way? |
| rindolf | messa4_: a woman cannot initiate a divorce in Judaism. :-( |
| messa4_ | please continue talking about judaism if u want. Its very intresting for me. |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: war? |
| Richard_Cavell | With North Korea threatening the world, are we looking at WW3? |
| rindolf | messa4_: OK. |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: I hope not. |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: and see https://bitbucket.org/shlomif/unarmed-blog/src/c0ea0108fa238dd53e21872b5b4433cb0f5203d6/essays/YouTube-Introduction-Transcript/intro.txt?at=default |
| messa4_ | rindolf: in Islam they can hehe. |
| rindolf | messa4_: yes. |
| messa4_ | Maxdamantus: NK is threating and talking nonsence for past 20 years. nothing to worry about. |
| rindolf | messa4_: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=you-are-banished |
| cntrational | messa4_: *nonsense |
| messa4_ | yeah |
| * arietis | (~arietis@188.242.181.162) has joined |
| messa4_ | haha |
| rindolf | messa4_: well, with a woman it's more complicated. |
| messa4_ | rindolf: on linux/unix u have fortune program for random cookies |
| Richard_Cavell | rindolf: Are you female? |
| Maxdamantus | %ro שלומי פיש |
| Brainstorm | Maxdamantus: The iw romanization failed, sorry! |
| rindolf | messa4_: and according to Islamic law, a man can opt to keep his children. |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: no, I'm male and straight. |
| messa4_ | rindolf: yeah i know. but i think that up to age of 4 or 11? they are with mother. |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: but I hate being a macho, and am always a gentleman. |
| Richard_Cavell | that's good |
| Richard_Cavell | So wait, Shlomi Fish is actually your real name? |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour.html#Im_not_straight |
| Richard_Cavell | I thought it was a nickname |
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| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: yes - שלומי פיש |
| Maxdamantus | Is Shlomi from the same root as Shalom? |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: it's on my FAQ - http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/ |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: yes , it is. |
| messa4_ | rindolf: at what age jewish ppl can marry? [by religion, not law] |
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| rindolf | Maxdamantus: it means "Shalom-ful" or "My Shalom" or "The Shalom of Yehovah". |
| rindolf | messa4_: any age they want. |
| Maxdamantus | Ah. |
| rindolf | messa4_: well, past "puberty". |
| Maxdamantus | So it's the same suffix as in Arabic. |
| rindolf | messa4_: which is 12 for girls and 13 for boys. |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: yes. |
| cntrational | interesting |
| messa4_ | thats the nanswer haha. |
| Maxdamantus | Does your last name mean anything? |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: it's not Shalomi due to various Hebrew grammar laws. |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: it means the sea-animal in English or German. |
| Maxdamantus | rindolf: what would "my starling" be? |
| cntrational | Maxdamantus: according to his faq, it means "fish" |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: well, it's with an English spelling. |
| Maxdamantus | Oh, is it just a translation? |
| Maxdamantus | \tr פיש |
| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "Fish" (iw to en, translate.google.com) |
| Richard_Cavell | rindolf: How do you pronounce it? |
| * ron | (~ron@unaffiliated/ron) has joined |
| Richard_Cavell | translate.google.com won't speak Hebrew |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: I was teased a lot about my last name as a child, but now it's great because I can use the EvilPHish emblem. |
| Maxdamantus | shin, yod, pe |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: fish in Hebrew is "Dag". |
| Maxdamantus | \tr my starling |
| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "my starling" (en to en, translate.google.com) |
| Maxdamantus | \tr :en :iw my starling |
| * lcanas | (~luis@163.117.210.157) has joined |
| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "זרזירי" (en to iw, translate.google.com) |
| Richard_Cavell | rindolf: So in Israel you're Shlomi Dag? |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/#your_name - pronunciation here in ogg and mp3 |
| ron | actually, fish in Hebrew would be pronounced closer to Dug than Dag. |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: no. |
| cntrational | huh, iw is an odd choice |
| messa4_ | rindolf: in my country we had a LOT of hasidic jews before war. are they the same kind of jewish ppl who are living in israel? or its minority or what? [ imean in religous part of population] |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: you don't translate names. |
| cntrational | i'd expect iv |
| Maxdamantus | That's my last name. |
| Maxdamantus | It's the same in Hebrew, apparently. |
| rindolf | messa4_: there are many Hasidic Jews here. |
| * Stooge | (~Stooge@cable-84-43-188-193.mnet.bg) has joined |
| rindolf | messa4_: but there's a large rift between Hasidic Jews and non-Hasidic Jews. |
| rindolf | messa4_: Judaism is pretty fractures. |
| messa4_ | rindolf: do they speak hebrew or other launguage? [forgot the name: mix of polish, german, russian etc. ] |
| cntrational | rindolf: do you know any yiddish or ladino or other jewish languages? |
| cntrational | other than hebrew, of course |
| rindolf | messa4_: but we are all united against our common enemy - the Goys! |
| messa4_ | yiddish! |
| ron | So... is there such a phrase in English as 'friend brings friend'? I'm looking to promote a hiring process by giving employees a referral bonus if they bring us people to the company. |
| messa4_ | whaaat |
| rindolf | messa4_: most of them also speak Hebrew. |
| cntrational | .w goy |
| la_fen | goy — noun: 1. A non-Jew, a Gentile |
| rindolf | messa4_: well, technically, I'm an Orthodox Jew. |
| messa4_ | rindolf: jews seriosly see non jews as enemis?! :D |
| messa4_ | i mean religous one |
| Richard_Cavell | rindolf: So how can you have an English word as your surname? |
| rindolf | messa4_: it's just a part of Jewish elitism. |
| * smgs808 | (Smorgasboa@unaffiliated/smorgasboard) has left |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: my Polish-Jewish grandfather carried it. |
| messa4_ | rindolf: so religious jews in israel would not like be just becasue im not jewish? :| |
| rindolf | messa4_: well... |
| cntrational | Richard_Cavell: it's likely from German fisch, but the /ʃ/ sound is usually transliterated "sh" from hebrew |
| messa4_ | thats kidna harsh |
| messa4_ | kinda* |
| Zetetic | Good old religion |
| rindolf | messa4_: Jews see themselves as the guiding light of humanity - who are set to set a moral example. |
| rindolf | messa4_: it was not uncommon among other people of the Near East. |
| rindolf | But only Jews have maintained their identity. |
| Zetetic | Which if you read the holy book is pretty laughable |
| rindolf | In part due to their belief in Jehovah. |
| ron | I don't see myself as guiding the light of humanity. |
| messa4_ | messa4_: ok its ok. but im just confused: so for example I have sympathy for hasidic jews [becasue of common history] but now they suddenly dont like me becasue im goy? :( |
| rindolf | ron: I do. |
| rindolf | ron: I aim to be an example, and to lead and not follow. |
| Maxdamantus | 20:07:39 < Maxdamantus> rindolf: can you pronounce זרזירי as well? |
| messa4_ | welcome back |
| rindolf | ron: and my stories reflect reality as I want it to become, rather than as badly as I or other people perceive it. |
| messa4_ | rindolf: ok its ok. but im just confused: so for example I have sympathy for hasidic jews [becasue of common history] but now they suddenly dont like me becasue im goy? :( |
| ron | rindolf: that's because you're an elitist. |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: Zarziri. |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: Zarzir is a kind of bird. |
| Maxdamantus | Interesting. |
| Maxdamantus | Yeah. |
| rindolf | ron: I iz an elitist. |
| Richard_Cavell | messa4_: Thanks. Sorry that my computer hanged and I didn't read anything since the last thing I typed |
| Maxdamantus | That's my name. |
| rindolf | messa4_: they could like you. |
| Maxdamantus | but it's actually in Arabic, but only the vowels are different. |
| Maxdamantus | only the second one, apparently. |
| rindolf | messa4_: and if you're a man, you can marry a Jewess and have Jewish children, and all will be fine. |
| ron | rindolf: and you make generalizations, which make non-orthodox jews wary of you. |
| messa4_ | Richard_Cavell: that was my quote heh. we all got disconnections here |
| rindolf | ron: I make some generalisations, and I apologise for that. |
| rindolf | ron: I also can be stereotypical. |
| ron | rindolf: no kidding. |
| rindolf | ron: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/TOWTF/ - this story is fully of cheap stereotypes. |
| messa4_ | rindolf: so its just a matter of "taste" or all hasidic jews in israel suddenly dont like goys from europe/whatever? |
| messa4_ | and i mean from religious point of view. |
| rindolf | messa4_: well, it's not exclusive to Hasidic Jews. |
| rindolf | messa4_: and we like goys. |
| rindolf | messa4_: just that we consider Jews as "ones of our own". |
| rindolf | messa4_: it's complicated. |
| rindolf | messa4_: BTW, are you a software dev? |
| Maxdamantus | So I'm a bird, rindolf's a fish. |
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| cntrational | gotta head out for an english exam, ciao |
| Maxdamantus | \tr :en :ar fish |
| messa4_ | messa4_: wanna-be software dev :) python, some C, tcl |
| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "سمك" (en to ar, translate.google.com) |
| Maxdamantus | smk |
| rindolf | Heh. |
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| rindolf | MAybe it means "to fish" |
| rindolf | Better use wiktionary for that. |
| rindolf | Or a better and non-free/open dictionary. |
| Maxdamantus | \tr :en :ar my fish |
| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "بلدي الأسماك" (en to ar, translate.google.com) |
| Maxdamantus | O_o |
| rindolf | Heh, gaws. |
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| Maxdamantus | \tr بلدي. الأسماك. |
| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "My country. Fish ." (ar to en, translate.google.com) |
| rindolf | \tr :en :he my fish |
| che_fen | rindolf: "הדגים שלי" (en to he, translate.google.com) |
| rindolf | Heh. |
| Maxdamantus | Where did country come from? |
| rindolf | I meant in singular. |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: how do men make war? |
| messa4_ | rindolf: so by religion its ok for jews to like goys? or its not advised? |
| messa4_ | recommended* |
| messa4_ | in islam for example is not recommended. but ok |
| messa4_ | its* |
| Maxdamantus | rindolf: by convincing populations that other populations are bad people. |
| messa4_ | my god. i got 15seconds lag |
| messa4_ | 22 seonds |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: that's a reference to https://www.google.com/search?q=where%20does%20babby%20come%20from |
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| Maxdamantus | I've س that. |
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| rindolf | messa4: it's complicated - Judaism is so contradictory. |
| rindolf | meese: even the five books of the Torah are contradictory. |
| rindolf | messa4*: even the five books of the Torah are contradictory. |
| rindolf | messa4: you always need to use reason. |
| Maxdamantus | \tr :en :he I like to fish |
| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "אני אוהב לדוג" (en to he, translate.google.com) |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: good translation. |
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| Maxdamantus | I'd probably say "I like fishing" |
| Maxdamantus | Rather than "I like to fish" |
| rindolf | messa4: anyway, it's more like elitism than anything else. |
| Maxdamantus | \w לדוג |
| che_fen | Couldn't get any definitions for לדוג. |
| Maxdamantus | \w :he לדוג |
| che_fen | Couldn't get any definitions for לדוג. |
| Maxdamantus | \w :iw לדוג |
| che_fen | IOError: [Errno socket error] [Errno -2] Name or service not known (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/socket.py", line 553, in create_connection) |
| rindolf | meese: traditionally the Judeo-Christian ethics were very sexist - http://unarmed.shlomifish.org/2396.html |
| rindolf | meese: sorry. |
| rindolf | messa4: ^^^ |
| messa4 | rindolf: i didnt know that religious jews are into elitism thing. unlike zionist jews. but it seems that i was wrong ahah :) |
| messa4 | i dont mind "sexism" |
| messa4 | becasue im ok with religion |
| messa4 | whatever god is telling its ok |
| rindolf | messa4: women could not write books, or philosophise, or perform at plays/etc. |
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| rindolf | messa4: and men were not supposed to cook. |
| messa4 | rindolf: hehe. thats normal values ;] |
| Maxdamantus | \tr :en :he random |
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| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "אקראי" (en to he, translate.google.com) |
| rindolf | messa4: nowadays some of the most acclaimed authors and actors are female. |
| Maxdamantus | מזנון |
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| rindolf | messa4: part of it is due to technological (both tangible and intellectual) advancement. |
| messa4 | rindolf: is there anything that man cant do, and its accepted in non religious world? |
| Maxdamantus | \w :he cat |
| che_fen | Couldn't get any definitions for cat. |
| Maxdamantus | \w :he CAT |
| che_fen | Couldn't get any definitions for CAT. |
| rindolf | messa4: thing is I've been an idealist for many years now, but my idealism has always changed. |
| Maxdamantus | \w :he הדמיה |
| che_fen | Couldn't get any definitions for הדמיה. |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: please take it to PM. |
| messa4 | rindolf: for me its ok. as i said: im ok with religion so im not jugmental about religious rules. i have more respect for them then man made laws heh |
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| rindolf | messa4: ah. |
| messa4 | rindolf: i know u wrote about it in rindolfism :D |
| rindolf | messa4: I think religion is man-made too. |
| messa4 | blasphemy! |
| messa4 | :D |
| messa4 | so wait |
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| messa4 | this is even more funny |
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| messa4 | so u are saying that u are jew becasue of jewish blood of mother - and religion is nothing to do with that? |
| rindolf | messa4: thing is a lot fo Leviticus/etc. in the Bible was thrown together out of paranoia. |
| rindolf | messa4: kinda. |
| rindolf | messa4: well, I'm Jewish as far as my eye can see. |
| rindolf | messa4: though we used to be peasant Jews. |
| messa4 | my god. so jewish ppl are not seen themselfs as "followers of judaism religion" but as blood "race" ? |
| rindolf | messa4: well, my grandmother's father was from Vilnius (= the Jerusalem of Lithuania) and was a big scholar. |
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| rindolf | messa4: I read some of his books - awesome stuff. |
| messa4 | in polish Vilnius its called Wilno. it was polish before the war hehe but shh |
| messa4 | rindolf: so jewish ppl are not seen themselfs as "followers of judaism religion" but as blood "race" ? |
| rindolf | messa4: yes, it passed through several sovereignships between 1900 and 2000. |
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| rindolf | messa4: well, it's more complicated. |
| Maxdamantus | The Hebrew wiktionary is weird. |
| rindolf | messa4: being a Jew or a Jewess is a big responsibility. |
| Maxdamantus | It's got "ROFL" and "WTF", but not "cat" |
| messa4 | i do understand whole "who is the jew" thing [there is nice wiki article] but i want to know what jewish ppl think about that in general |
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| rindolf | Maxdamantus: it's חתול in Hebrew. |
| rindolf | messa4: well, it's complicated. |
| rindolf | messa4: I like being a Jew, but I have to prove myself. |
| Maxdamantus | Mm, but the Wiktionaries tend to have at least a few English words. |
| Maxdamantus | \w :fr cat |
| che_fen | cat — nom commun: 1. Variante de chat, 2. (Zoologie) Chat, chatte (animal) — locution adverbiale: 1. Mépris indifférent, 2. Immédiatement après, aussitôt après, dès que — symbole: 1. (Linguistique) Code ISO 639-3 du catalan — onomatopée: 1. Onomatopée exprimant l'indifférence |
| rindolf | messa4: and some Jews, including our prime minister are a disgrace to Judaism. |
| messa4 | for example: if most ppl in israel would be jew by BLOOD but muslims by religions - they will still have jewish elitism thing? |
| messa4 | wow |
| rindolf | messa4: someone who converted to Christianity or Islam is no longer a Jew. |
| messa4 | ok good |
| Maxdamantus | Who's to say he's a disgrace to Judaism? |
| messa4 | and for u for example: its more about blood or faith? |
| rindolf | messa4: on the other hand, the children of an Atheist Jewess are 100% Jewish. |
| rindolf | messa4: it's not about faith. |
| messa4 | u feel jewish becasue u belive in faith or becasue of blood requirments? |
| messa4 | ok |
| messa4 | very strange |
| rindolf | messa4: I really hope God is not the one in the Bible. |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=if-God-exists |
| messa4 | haha |
| messa4 | srindolf: so its even more confuzing. so those previously mentioned hasidic jews might not like me becasue Im have just blood of non jew? and religion doesnt matter? |
| rindolf | messa4: I think we should even ditch part of the Ten Commandments. |
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| messa4 | I have* |
| rindolf | messa4: listen, Judaism is positively huge. |
| messa4 | i know i know |
| messa4 | but im just trying to udnerstand the faith/blood balance |
| rindolf | messa4: well... |
| rindolf | messa4: Judaism is a culture, an ethnicity. |
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| messa4 | i mean i would expect that for hasidic jews [ultra orthodox] its more about faith then blood and stuff |
| messa4 | but im wrong heh |
| rindolf | messa4: and the Jews have incorporated elements of their surrounding environment by infusion, influence, and by blood (marrying with former gentiles). |
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| messa4 | for example in islam: race, blood, coluor - doesnt matter at all. its just faith |
| rindolf | messa4: yes. |
| messa4 | thats why im shocked. kinda opposite |
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| rindolf | messa4: the Jews nowadays have lots of influences by many people. |
| messa4 | rindolf: |
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| messa4 | good or bad influances? :D |
| rindolf | messa4: Greek, Egyptians, Mesupotamians, Slavs, Germanic, Celtic, Roman, etc, etc. |
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| rindolf | messa4: American typically think that Jewish girls are unattractive, but they obviously have not been to Tel Aviv... |
| messa4 | btw its shocking becasue nazi did the same to jews: they classifed them by BLOOD. kinda ironic |
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| rindolf | messa4: yes. |
| messa4 | rindolf: haha thats true about girls. i also find them unatracctive from what i have seen in internet |
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| messa4 | but you must be right :) |
| rindolf | messa4: when you let Jews loose into their surroundings then Bad Things Happen. After the Christian ruling of Spain, many Jews opted to convert to Christianity, and now 25% of the Spanish males have a Jewish Y chromosome. |
| messa4 | dint know that haha |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shlomif/ - some hot Jewish chicks. |
| messa4 | they look like from lebanon lol |
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| messa4 | some jewish girls have big noses tho. im serious |
| messa4 | hmm. didnt know that u got blone jewish womans |
| rindolf | messa4: yes, I kinda noticed it too. |
| rindolf | messa4: we do. :-) |
| rindolf | messa4: well, some chicks colour their hair. |
| messa4 | and naturally? |
| rindolf | messa4: some also naturally. |
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| rindolf | messa4: primarily children can be blond. |
| rindolf | messa4: my father was blond as a boy, but later became black-haired. |
| messa4 | im kinda opposite. when im on sun my hair become lighter |
| messa4 | i mean if u are for 2 weeks in spain for example |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. |
| rindolf | messa4: my hair was always black. |
| rindolf | messa4: but I kinda resemble my father. |
| rindolf | messa4: my sisters had light brown hair as children. |
| rindolf | messa4: one of them is still not completely black-haired. |
| messa4 | most of those girls on photos doesnt look jewish haha |
| rindolf | messa4: and our hairs have been turning grey/white. :-( |
| messa4 | like gandalf :D |
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| messa4 | man you got great weather there |
| rindolf | messa4: have you seen Spaceballs? |
| messa4 | on every single photo |
| messa4 | star wars parody? :) |
| messa4 | then yes. but may years ago |
| rindolf | messa4: Lone Starr: "Just what we need! A Druish Princess." Barf: "Funny! She doesn't look Druish." |
| rindolf | messa4: watch it again. |
| rindolf | messa4: it's one of the bestest movies ever. |
| messa4 | heh |
| messa4 | wait |
| messa4 | http://www.flickr.com/photos/shlomif/3419217176/in/photostream |
| messa4 | whaaat u also got Broth? |
| messa4 | we have the same but iwthout peas |
| rindolf | messa4: my mother prepared it. |
| messa4 | usually just with egg. or with potatoes |
| rindolf | messa4: not sure it's called "Broth". |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. |
| rindolf | messa4: we call it "נזיד" in Hebrew. |
| rindolf | It's a Biblical word. |
| rindolf | Nezid. |
| messa4 | intresting |
| messa4 | we also eat it with pasta |
| messa4 | or even entire chicken inside |
| messa4 | anyway |
| rindolf | messa4: ah, OK. |
| messa4 | a lot of polish food is simialr to what jews are eating. or opposite |
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| rindolf | messa4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_cuisine |
| messa4 | the whole hasidic jews had huge impact |
| rindolf | messa4: yes. |
| messa4 | i started discovering it few years ago. most ppl are not aware of it at all |
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| rindolf | messa4: I'm not a big fan of most Eastern European Jewish food. |
| messa4 | even some "national" food is jewish. or maybe adopted by jews. who knows |
| rindolf | messa4: too unspicey and unedgy for me. |
| messa4 | haha |
| rindolf | messa4: I prefer more mideastern food. |
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| messa4 | i like polish food |
| rindolf | messa4: and Italian/Chinese/Thai/American/etc. food is also good. |
| messa4 | even in UK im eating that kinda of food for dinner usually |
| rindolf | Now some people like Ethiopian food. |
| messa4 | such us? never heard of any |
| rindolf | messa4: I didn't either. |
| rindolf | messa4: I never ate Sushi. |
| rindolf | My father doesn't like it. |
| messa4 | me neither haha |
| rindolf | Lots of geek seem to like it a lot. |
| messa4 | LMAO!!! |
| rindolf | geeks. |
| messa4 | Armeniadoma - Stuffed vine leaves. do u eat if often? |
| rindolf | messa4: ah, yes, I love them. |
| rindolf | messa4: with rice, right? |
| messa4 | im laughing becasue i just ate very similar [but from cabbage instead vine leaves] few days ago! |
| messa4 | RICE and mushrooms |
| messa4 | and meat |
| messa4 | and tomato souce |
| rindolf | Ah, I only like the ones at restaurants. |
| messa4 | or not rice but [let me find the word] |
| rindolf | messa4: I ate at a Czech restaurant the other day. |
| rindolf | messa4: the food was OK, but I didn't really love the dish. |
| messa4 | we made it with "Groat" (is that english word for it?) isntead rice usually |
| rindolf | messa4: ah, but I had a great time at the Mongolian grill bar. |
| rindolf | messa4: but it costs a lot of money. |
| messa4 | wow thats exotic |
| messa4 | anyway |
| rindolf | Something like 100 ILS/person - 150 ILS/person now. |
| rindolf | I think they are very popular. |
| messa4 | Armeniadoma - Stuffed vine leaves. thats what i was talking about. We seem it as one of the "national dishes" in poland. but u got the same in israel |
| messa4 | how much is 1ILS in $? |
| rindolf | messa4: do you have many foreign-style restaurants in .pl? |
| messa4 | well i lvie in uk since few years so i dont know current state. but in general: no really. or if we do: they are kinda fake |
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| messa4 | u can get sushi or piza or whatever. but u know - its made by local ppl |
| messa4 | so i would say that not really imo |
| messa4 | we dont have strong resturants or fast food culture |
| rindolf | messa4: ah, I see. |
| rindolf | messa4: ah, OK. |
| rindolf | messa4: I was told many poles immigrated to .uk. |
| rindolf | messa4: where do you live there? |
| messa4 | MILLIONS |
| messa4 | about 2 millions at least |
| rindolf | messa4: millions? Seriously? |
| rindolf | Wow. |
| rindolf | A lot. |
| messa4 | very serious |
| rindolf | Ah. |
| messa4 | in just few years timespan |
| rindolf | Wow. |
| messa4 | everyone was shocked hehe |
| rindolf | OK. |
| messa4 | massive exodus. like jews from egypt hahahaha |
| rindolf | messa4: heh. |
| messa4 | I was from northern part. but born in Krakow |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. |
| rindolf | messa4: where do you live in .uk? |
| messa4 | a lot of hasidic jews there before war |
| rindolf | messa4: yes. |
| rindolf | messa4: was Krakow destroyed ? |
| messa4 | in North-west. |
| messa4 | rindolf: not at all |
| rindolf | messa4: ah, that's great. |
| messa4 | one ofthe few cities not destroyed very much |
| messa4 | becasue krakow was headquater of nazi officials in occupied poland |
| rindolf | Mother fucking nazis. |
| messa4 | hehe |
| messa4 | yeah we dont like them too |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shlomif/8424748431/in/photostream/ |
| rindolf | messa4: not sure if you saw it. |
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| messa4 | even today germans are trying to say that there was more antisemitism in poland before war then in nazi germany. i fuckin hate them |
| rindolf | messa4: thing is even if Hitler did not kill millions of Jews, he was still one hell of a motherfucker. |
| messa4 | you know rindolf |
| rindolf | messa4: thing is at any point you can say "No" to your oppressor. |
| messa4 | for us even without jews is a big problem: remember that A LOT of polish population died in camps. not just jews |
| rindolf | Which can be a "fuck you" or a whining like I tend to do. |
| rindolf | messa4: yes, I know. |
| messa4 | rindolf: bassicly germans are trying to convice the world that is was not their goverment who sanctioned holocaust. but it was polish fault |
| messa4 | its insanse. few days ago there was big beef becasue german tv made some movie about such lies |
| messa4 | and some uneducated germans might belive in that shit fully |
| messa4 | thats why i hate nazis and germans |
| messa4 | ps. there was antisemitism in poland as well. but for fuck sake - it was not even 1% of what they did in germany. |
| messa4 | btw |
| messa4 | there is funny story |
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| messa4 | in 1968 communist goverment in poland. exiled all jews from poland [well not all but u know] |
| messa4 | including top ranking policians, and secret police members |
| messa4 | and funny part is that |
| messa4 | that was all becasue of Israel. Israel was in war back then with Egypt and whatever [u know better]. and some polish ppl [jewish] went to streets in poland with flags and shit and supported isreal :D hehe and thats ok but goverment was supporting THE OTHER SIDE of war :D |
| messa4 | so they were very angly. its like supporting opposing side during the war. so in most dumb decision ever they decided them to send them all to israel |
| messa4 | and its funny becasue it was not becasue of antisemitism - but after that goverment was antisemitic. like going back in evolution |
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| rindolf | messa4: ah, OK. |
| rindolf | messa4: there are very few Jews left in Poland. |
| rindolf | messa4: I don't think WWII was about antisemitism. |
| rindolf | messa4: and the American Civil War was not about slavery. |
| messa4 | rindolf: there are more and more jews after 1989 |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. |
| rindolf | messa4: OK. |
| rindolf | messa4: immigrants? |
| rindolf | messa4: BTW, Polish culture had quite a lot of influence on Israel. |
| rindolf | messa4: well, German culture too. |
| rindolf | messa4: the earliest waves of Zionist immigrants were from Russia, Poland and Germany. |
| messa4 | and imo u are wrong .second WW was about jews hehe. 1933-39 - major attacks on german jews. that gave the power to hitler to invade europe - people german ppl truly belived that it was all fault of jews - so war is OK |
| messa4 | i think that 1933-39 is even more scarry then holocaust itself |
| messa4 | becasue: |
| rindolf | messa4: well, antisemitism played a large role in it. |
| rindolf | messa4: anyway, we are getting into dangerous territory here. |
| rindolf | WWII/Hitler/Nazism. |
| rindolf | http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-perl-how-to-stop-a-discussion |
| messa4 | 1. germans were not at war at all yet with anyway BUT 2. It was possible BY THE LAW AND DEMOCARATIC GOVERMENT: to transofrm jews into underclass - take away they rights and even put some of them into camps way before holocaust concept [Dachau] |
| messa4 | and 3. they proved how MEDIA [radio and newspaper] can destroy minds of ppl: convincing them that they need to hate jews |
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| messa4 | why dangerous territory? |
| rindolf | messa4: well, I think any constitutional discrimination is bad, especially what's going on in Israel now. |
| smgs808 | .w bills |
| la_fen | bills — noun: 1. Plural form of bill — verb: 1. Third-person singular simple present indicative form of bill |
| smgs808 | .w vouchers |
| la_fen | vouchers — noun: 1. Plural form of voucher — verb: 1. Third-person singular simple present indicative form of voucher |
| messa4 | rindolf: exactly my point!! :) World didnt do SHIT to help jews in 1933-39 in germany - and look how it ended? |
| rindolf | smgs808: the kill bill. |
| rindolf | messa4: yes. |
| rindolf | messa4: did you hear of Neo-Tech? |
| messa4 | becasue it was "legal" in germany to persecute jew. biggest tragedy of XX century imo. [whole LAW prcoess made evil legal] |
| messa4 | nope |
| smgs808 | :c |
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| rindolf | messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/n-t-/ |
| rindolf | messa4: the so-called "Neo-Tech cosmic power" book was the most influential book I read. |
| smgs808 | .w bill |
| la_fen | bill — noun: 1. Any of various bladed or pointed hand weapons, originally designating an Anglo-Saxon sword, and later a weapon of infantry, especially in the 14th and 15th centuries, commonly consisting of a broad, heavy, double-edged, hook-shaped blade, with a short pike at the back and anot[...] |
| rindolf | messa4: it's positively awesome, but seems very farfetched. |
| messa4 | what is ti about? |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/philosophy/guide-to-neo-tech/ |
| messa4 | i dont like philosophy |
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| rindolf | messa4: but I think the world caught up. |
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| rindolf | messa4: ah, you should. |
| rindolf | messa4: though 90% of philosophy is crap. |
| messa4 | its not that im closed minded. im open. but i prefer religion to philosophy |
| rindolf | messa4: but philosophy is incredibly useful. |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. |
| rindolf | messa4: religion is-a philosophy. |
| messa4 | partly |
| rindolf | messa4: and there's a lot of awesome stuff in non-religious stuff. |
| messa4 | the |
| messa4 | neo-tech page that u linked in your webpage is broken :( |
| messa4 | rindolf: for example what? |
| rindolf | messa4: and modern franchises of fiction are also philosophy: Star Trek , Buffy, The Three Musketeers, Friends, etc. etc. |
| rindolf | messa4: also Aesop's fables. |
| rindolf | messa4: and the Greek mythology. |
| messa4 | since i learned some physics [some basics of quantum mechanics, atoms, gravity, string theories etc] and i discovered religon - i dont think that i need anything else hehe |
| rindolf | Which was once a religion, but now is no longer taken seriously. |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. |
| rindolf | messa4: I always try to gain more an more external influences. |
| messa4 | for me physics+religion is way to go. even most ultra-orthodox |
| rindolf | messa4: now I started watching My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. |
| rindolf | messa4: and some people play games. |
| messa4 | whaat |
| messa4 | where doest that phonies come from? |
| rindolf | messa4: do you listen to popular songs? Or covers of them on youtube. |
| messa4 | i mean we were talking about mythology and suddenly u talking about pink pony :D |
| rindolf | messa4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Little_Pony:_Friendship_Is_Magic |
| rindolf | messa4: MLP is a cult T.V. show among some grown up men. It's great. |
| messa4 | inever heard about it haha |
| rindolf | messa4: do you read xkcd? |
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| messa4 | sometimes |
| rindolf | messa4: well, I think it's more of an American thing. |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. |
| messa4 | but i would not call it "reading" :) |
| messa4 | its a comics |
| messa4 | wait |
| messa4 | waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Summerschool-at-the-NSA/ongoing-text.html#we_are_scheming - this is kinda an xkcd fan fiction, and I also reference MLP and drug abuse. |
| messa4 | i remember those ponies from tv when i was a kid |
| messa4 | rindolf: i already know "Summerschool-at-the-NSA" screen play :) |
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| rindolf | messa4: ah, that was a different incarnation. |
| rindolf | messa4: did you read it yet? |
| rindolf | messa4: thing is - you need good philosophy to write good fiction. |
| rindolf | messa4: and I think it's important not to speak in riddle, and be honest. |
| messa4 | i did read it fully like one week ago. and we were talking about it. I said that it had hillarious moments, but i didnt understand it all, and you chaning the storyline too fast and too rapidly :D |
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| rindolf | messa4: ah, I see. |
| rindolf | messa4: OK. |
| rindolf | messa4: OK, maybe it's a known bug. |
| rindolf | messa4: my stories cannot be everything for everyone. |
| messa4 | rindolf: you just just write some neat story about judaism but WITHOUT time travel, terminator, computers or vampires references :) heehehhe |
| rindolf | messa4: "please all and ye shall please none" -- Aesop. |
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| messa4 | becasue for me: your stories are intresting - but then in the middle of fun u are chaning whole theme :D |
| messa4 | changing* |
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| rindolf | messa4: ah. |
| rindolf | messa4: well, I'm not a purist of anything. |
| rindolf | messa4: I feel art should be mixed and matched. |
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| rindolf | messa4: you may enjoy my shorter stuff more. |
| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: hi. |
| messa4 | anyway: why u need some extra philosphy if u got whole judaism mysticism right in front of u? |
| I-Love-Boobies | Hi. |
| rindolf | messa4: like the Chuck Norris factoids, or the aphorisms or quotes. |
| messa4 | i mean i bet that u can find some intresting stuff in it |
| rindolf | messa4: "All truth is God's truth" |
| messa4 | and not main stream |
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| rindolf | messa4: I need to see past the limitations of Judaism. |
| messa4 | what limitations? |
| rindolf | messa4: into stuff like Star Trek, Buffy, My Little Pony, internet culture, open source, etc. |
| messa4 | u are studying this tuff for thousands of years and u still dont know anything. so its kinda unlimited source to get new ideas |
| I-Love-Boobies | And past its lack of evidence, of course. |
| messa4 | i dont know rindolf |
| rindolf | messa4: I prefer to learn horizontally rather than vertically. |
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| rindolf | messa4: I can never learn every word in English, but that should not stop me from improving my French, or learning German or whatever. |
| messa4 | shame |
| rindolf | messa4: shame? |
| rindolf | messa4: I'm learning many English words. |
| messa4 | shame: u have great knowlege about judaism stuff and philosphy etc. and u are choosing to focus on buffy or star trek? :P |
| I-Love-Boobies | Isn't that also learning vertically? |
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| rindolf | messa4: I'm not focusing on anything. |
| rindolf | messa4: well, I do. |
| rindolf | messa4: Judaism is a large part of me. |
| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: it is, but I learn them as I run into them. |
| I-Love-Boobies | Why? |
| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: the ones I don't know don't hurt me much. |
| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: some people forgot which words are useful. |
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| I-Love-Boobies | How much does the one you know hurt you and how much does it hurt others? |
| messa4 | brb |
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| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: do the words "fuck you" hurt you much? |
| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: how about the words "go to hell, idiot?". |
| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: how about the words "go to hell, idiot!". |
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| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: BTW, which boobies do you love the most? |
| I-Love-Boobies | I'm not talking about "just words." I'm talking about actions. |
| messa4 | lmao |
| messa4 | im back |
| messa4 | anyway |
| I-Love-Boobies | It takes religion to make a good person do wicked things. |
| messa4 | rindolf: write some story without time travel and stuff. constant theme. and i would love to read it |
| messa4 | for example: "what if torah would be closed source" :D |
| I-Love-Boobies | Not because they want to be bad, but because they think their ideology provides absolute morality. |
| messa4 | oh my god |
| messa4 | I-Love-Boobies: thats true. but thats not bad thing becasue religion is always good |
| messa4 | thats why religon is with us for thousand of years |
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| messa4 | s |
| messa4 | if would be evil: it would be banished |
| I-Love-Boobies | Good? It makes people hate homosexuals, fight wars for gods for which they have no evidence, ban stem cell research (which has the potential to help so many), fly planes into buildings, subjugate women, burn people who find things which contradict the holy books, etc. |
| I-Love-Boobies | Given that we have no scientific evidence, it is extremely likely that we did all this and much more in vain... |
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| Maxdamantus | How does having something for thousands of years suggest it's good? |
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| Maxdamantus | We had human sacrifices .. forever. |
| rindolf | messa4: I have much more normal short stories. |
| rindolf | messa4: did you read http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/human-hacking/ ? It's close to being 100% realism. |
| rindolf | messa4: but I reference popular culture. I have to. |
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| Maxdamantus | messa4: lots of Germans apparently thought Nazism was good. |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: it took outside forces to banish it. |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: people don't just banish things they're brainwashed to believe in. |
| furrykef | People are sheep. |
| furrykef | Especially those who watch Fox News. |
| * furrykef | runs |
| Maxdamantus | Why doesn't Fox News banish itself? |
| rindolf | furrykef: meow. |
| rindolf | furrykef: Apple fanboys are sheep too. |
| furrykef | meowmeow. |
| messa4 | afk brb |
| furrykef | Don't get me started on Apple. |
| rindolf | furrykef: but many like https://www.google.com/search?q=ijustine are critical. |
| Maxdamantus | furrykef: baah* |
| rindolf | I mean they are self-critical. |
| rindolf | furrykef: BTW, did you watch Sheep in the Big City? It was great. |
| furrykef | I did! I loved that show. |
| furrykef | It still isn't on DVD or anything yet, is it? |
| rindolf | furrykef: yeah. |
| rindolf | furrykef: don't think so. |
| Maxdamantus | On a related note: https://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/055d96b3f28d8facfb97/raw/146.png |
| furrykef | It's like the show just got thrown under the bus. |
| I-Love-Boobies | There is a difference between being a fan and the inability of recognizing evidence. Apple fanboys know what they're paying and have made their choice. |
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| I-Love-Boobies | Opinion vs fact. |
| furrykef | Man, I just realized it was about ten years ago I was watching that show |
| messa4 | back |
| I-Love-Boobies | I liked that show, too, btw. :D |
| messa4 | Maxdamantus: maybe u are right. but in my opinion: religion is ok. i woudln't mind to live under orthodox jews rule or in christian empire or under muslim calpiphate. for me religion maks more sense then constantly changing values and laws of modern politics |
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| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: It's not values that establish the validity of something---it's evidence. |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: being able to change values makes more sense than accepting that values should all come from second-hand accounts of what some guy said 2000 years ago. |
| messa4 | Maxdamantus: there are some fist hand accounts in other religions (like islam) |
| Maxdamantus | or 1400 years ago, or whatever. |
| Maxdamantus | Yes, or even first-hand accounts 1400 years ago. |
| messa4 | anyway. i would rater belive in value system that is CONSTANT for thousand year. then for system that is changing by 180* in just few dacades |
| I-Love-Boobies | Islam did well for itself, didn't it. The greatest civilization went to shit as soon as math and religion collided. |
| messa4 | 70 yares ago it was ok to shoot jew in germany. now its evil. fuck that kind of value system |
| rindolf | I think the only difference between Star Trek/Buffy/The Greek Mythology/etc. and the Bible is that some people think the Bible is The Word of God. |
| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: Nice values, too. Should they keep them? |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: people come up with new value systems (religions) all the time. |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: I don't think many people really have the same value system as JC. |
| messa4 | Maxdamantus: Orthodox jews or muslims are bleiving the the same values and laws since day 1 |
| messa4 | for me this is way to go |
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| messa4 | even if ua re not religeious |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: it'll be the one of the Anglican church in their country, or the Catholic church, or something. |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: I think in the US there are like .. thousands of churches, each with their own belief systems. |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: some churches there support gay marriage. |
| I-Love-Boobies | Personally, I'd like to have a morality that is subject to discourse not some rigid rules that you can't change when they prove to be detrimental. |
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| Maxdamantus | messa4: 2000-year-old belief systems don't work. |
| I-Love-Boobies | Or that require mental gymnastics to work around. |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: very few people are really willing to believe them. |
| messa4 | Maxdamantus: so what? enforce the law |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: that's why you have what you have today—people don't REALLY believe others should be stoned for working on Sunday. |
| I-Love-Boobies | Like in Christianity. |
| messa4 | exactly like u enforce NORMAL law |
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| messa4 | for me its no diffrence |
| messa4 | but if i could choose - i would rather follow stable non chaning archaic rules then new rules every 10 years totally oposing those from 50 years before |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: they don't REALLY believe women should marry their rapists if they can't find four men to testify in their favour. |
| Frogulis | \w palimpsest |
| che_fen | palimpsest — verb: 1. To scrape clean, as in parchment, for reuse, 2. On paper: to reuse, often by erasure or change of pen direction or color. Especially fueled by Earth Day — noun: 1. A manuscript or document that has been erased or scraped clean, for reuse of the paper, parchment, vellum[...] |
| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: Because you are against us evolving as a society? |
| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: Do you think it would be good if they decided that in the medieval times and stuck to it? |
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| messa4 | yes |
| messa4 | but thats just my opinion |
| I-Love-Boobies | Then you are evil since you advocate suffering. |
| I-Love-Boobies | Either that or inconsistent in your beliefs. |
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| messa4 | i advocate stable laws that are stable for thousands of years. not some stupidty made by humans every few years |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: what happens when the next religion comes along? |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: each religion just replaces another. |
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| messa4 | no its not |
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| Maxdamantus | messa4: it itself changes beliefs. |
| messa4 | you got judaism. after it christianity and islam - neither was replaced. |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: to have consistent beliefs, you'd need to go back to the beginnings of civilisations. |
| messa4 | jews are still beliving in judaism |
| messa4 | and still practising its laws [orthodox] |
| I-Love-Boobies | The laws from back then were developed by humans too. Except they were more crewel becasue we didn't lean how to be a society yet. |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: Christianity replaced Judaism for many people. |
| messa4 | anyway i dont care my friends. for me mix religious laws + scientific progress is way to go. i dont want any social progress at all |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: you seem to contradict yourself. |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: is Christianity legitimate or not? |
| messa4 | u asking in general or my personal belief? |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: it's one of the religions you listed, but it's just a belief system that replaced another (Judaism). |
| Maxdamantus | Your personal belief. |
| I-Love-Boobies | Also, even if you might have heard otherwise, science and religion are in contradiction to one another. |
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| messa4 | my personal belief is that islam, judaism and chiristianity is the same religion. aka Monotheism. oryginal religion of Abraham |
| Maxdamantus | (note though, as I alluded to earlier, there isn't really any "Christianity" anymore) |
| messa4 | so i could live under judaism islam or christian system of values |
| messa4 | and be ok |
| Maxdamantus | (it's now Catholicism, Anglicanism, Lutherism, etc) |
| Maxdamantus | (all different belief systems) |
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| I-Love-Boobies | Maxdamantus: Which is ironic. They love to talk about absolute values and yet there are as many Christianities as believers in Christianity. |
| messa4 | its true with christianity. but islam and judaism is not that fragmented |
| I-Love-Boobies | True. |
| I-Love-Boobies | Maxdamantus: I mean even Catholics disagree in their interpretations in ways that agree which each individual views on other things. |
| Maxdamantus | The Catholic church believed in purgatory until a few years ago. |
| Maxdamantus | afk |
| Maxdamantus | and Islam and Judaism are in no way constant either. |
| messa4 | and seriously: why follow some law made by politician, when we could follow law made thousand years ago. even if u dont belive in it - its more realible and STABLE. nothing worse then unstable law [in one minute u can kill all jews by signing single law] |
| Maxdamantus | rindolf was talking earlier about how scholars *believe* particular things. |
| Maxdamantus | Based on the way they understand the Torah |
| messa4 | Maxdamantus: islam is constant. thats why its so primitive and archaic. not even single letter was changed in quran since beggining, and all laws are the same. thats why they are so strange |
| messa4 | but its ok for me personally |
| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: Is it okay when they subjugate their women or kill each other in the street? |
| I-Love-Boobies | Why? |
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| messa4 | I-Love-Boobies: go and study |
| I-Love-Boobies | Pardon? |
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| I-Love-Boobies | It's easy to dismiss uncomfortable questions... |
| messa4 | i dont want to discuss about it. but it seems that u have deep misunderstanding of islamic laws. but u can learn a littlebit about it. plenty of sources |
| messa4 | its like saying: is it ok for christians to kill jews? |
| messa4 | generalization and shit |
| messa4 | so im not gonna discuss it. |
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| I-Love-Boobies | Is anyone else amused at this? :) |
| messa4 | and as i said: i dont mind living under orthodox jewish or islamc law. |
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| I-Love-Boobies | Because you are not the target of anyone. |
| Skunky | because he's a guy not a girl |
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| marzipig | Pretty sure I'd be executed under Jewish or Islamic law |
| marzipig | because Allah/Jahweh as depicted in those books is a cunt |
| messa4 | wow |
| messa4 | ok im back to my channel ridol |
| messa4 | rindolf: |
| messa4 | marzipig: no comment man. kinda uncool |
| rindolf | messa4: ok. |
| rindolf | messa4: hi. |
| marzipig | messa4: it's true though, genocidal, sadistic |
| messa4 | have some repsect for fuk sake |
| messa4 | even if u dont like it |
| Skunky | no |
| binders | in other words, human |
| marzipig | No |
| messa4 | dont call it "cunt" |
| rindolf | messa4: BTW, there's this episode of Futurama where in the future Star Trek becomes a religion. |
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| binders | he said "as depicted" |
| I-Love-Boobies | Nothing is above criticism. This is the only way to discard bad habits. |
| marzipig | If it's a misrepresenation, then I feel bad for the entity(but it should release a sequel) |
| I-Love-Boobies | :) |
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| marzipig | One way in which I am superior to Jahweh: I don't think people who call me a cunt deserve eternal torture |
| messa4 | i fuckin dont get this hatered |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=futurama+%22no+fan+has+gone+before%22&oq=futurama+%22no+fan+has+gone+before%22&gs_l=youtube.3...18478.19277.0.19649.2.2.0.0.0.0.141.271.0j2.2.0...0.0...1ac.1.V5-7yu84pmk |
| marzipig | messa4: you are aware that genocide is frowned upon? |
| messa4 | i dont like catholic church for example. i could talk about their bad stuff for days. but for god sake - i have some respect for their belief |
| messa4 | it doesnt matter |
| messa4 | i ahte "liberal" people who are acting like nazis |
| messa4 | without respect |
| messa4 | :( |
| marzipig | Good morning Mr Godwin |
| binders | "like nazis" isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? |
| messa4 | maybe. im sorry |
| messa4 | but u know what i mean |
| marzipig | No, I don't |
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| marzipig | In fact I strongly suspect you don't /have/ a point |
| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: The source of our dislike is quite simple: As long as there is no evidence for a belief, it merely paves the way for certain actions. In the case of all religions I know of, many of these actions are wicked. |
| marzipig | I-Love-Boobies: my view is more nuanced |
| I-Love-Boobies | So why does a detrimental belief for which there is no evidence demand respect? |
| I-Love-Boobies | marienz: Oh? |
| messa4 | I-Love-Boobies: for example LAW |
| messa4 | even secular law |
| messa4 | like in UK |
| binders | law can be reformed |
| I-Love-Boobies | ^ |
| binders | scripture is eternal |
| I-Love-Boobies | ^ |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=larry-wall-all-truth-is-gods-truh - see this. |
| binders | and we make the law |
| marzipig | I-Love-Boobies: Oh, actually, you probably hold the same view as me, dogmatism is the problem |
| binders | it's not imposed on us by some cruel superpower who kills on a whim |
| messa4 | even if u dont give a fuck about religion law. In most countries SECULAR law forbids u to say things like "this religion is cunt". u need to be respectful even if u dont belive in it |
| marzipig | It's not just "religion" it's holding on to any view regardless of whether it's counterfactual |
| marzipig | messa4: here we still have some freedom of speech, and I never said Judaism was a cunt |
| * blitter_ | has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| messa4 | marzipig: u are in USA i belive? |
| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: A law which is also detrimental and should be changed. |
| marzipig | messa4: you believe wrong, I'm in England |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=the-cia-vs-the-kgb-vs-the-shin-bet - you may also enjoy this. Israeli humour. |
| Maxdamantus | 22:17:28 < messa4> i dont like catholic church for example. i could talk about their bad stuff for days. but for god sake - i have some respect for their belief |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: I think the Catholic church used to execute people like you. |
| marzipig | Maxdamantus: you seriously think they stopped? |
| marzipig | Pretty good at not letting things get out that church |
| messa4 | marzipig: ARE YOU INSNANE?! if u will say "religion xyz is cunt" in any british town - u will be prosecuted. no doubt |
| marzipig | messa4: no, and I didn't say that |
| * shikhin | has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| I-Love-Boobies | Shame on the UK then. |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: the Roman Catholic Church of today is very different from that when the press was invented. |
| marzipig | I-Love-Boobies: shame on the UK for other reasons, not that one(yet) |
| messa4 | marzipig: so who said that? sorry |
| messa4 | anyway nvm |
| marzipig | messa4: I said that Jahweh as depicted in the Torah/Bible/Qur'an comes accross as a cunt |
| I-Love-Boobies | Yes, that. Nothing should be above the freedom of expression and critique. |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: for example, Madonna was welcomed to visit many churches, while back in 1400 she would have been burned on stake. |
| binders | messa4, nobody said the religion was a cunt (which makes no sense anyway) refer back to what marzipig actually said |
| marzipig | rindolf: "burned at the stake" |
| messa4 | marzipig: nvm. its dissrespectful anyway |
| marzipig | Your point is right though |
| marzipig | Right, I have no respect for that particular fictional entity |
| messa4 | for me its end of topic. i hate disrespect. doesnt care if u are jew or muslim or whatever |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: you should have some respect for disrespect. |
| marzipig | I honestly think I'm showing you more respect than y oure shoing me |
| marzipig | *you're |
| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: Disrespectful? But we should be critical of such things... Some people think blacks are lesser people. Should I show respect just because it is a belief? |
| marzipig | At least I'm not shouting at you to shut up |
| rindolf | marzipig: thanks! I'll try to keep it in mind. |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: <Maxdamantus> messa4: you should have some respect for disrespect.- hah! That's great. |
| Channel | ##English |
| Network | Freenode |
