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Freenode ##programming Conversations - (Fortunes Cookies) Shlomi Fish’s Collection [possible satire]

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The Freenode IRC Network’s ##programming channel is a channel for discussing programming. These are some conversations and related excerpts from it in XML-Grammar-Fortune format.

( Note: on chat services, I tend to use the nicknames "rindolf" or "shlomif". )

.om
With what to write code?
Your Emacs is so fat
Why XSLT is so evil?
Introducing dazjorz to Zuu
Reindeers, Tomatoes and Nicks
SNAFU Cake
What is Qantor?
Turing Hard
The Ultimate ##programming Showdown
ispy Emulating a Clueless Newbie
What kind of animal is Zuu?
Meaning of the Zuu species
##programming about Real Programmers
Semicolons
Calculator
The Universal Die
I Wanna Be a Hacker
/dev/null is webscale.
iSomething
Bad Names for Programs
Selling Open Source Source Code
gcc warning flags
Ultra Compression
Ruby Tuesday
Mac Server
Maths Education and Languages
“I need an Open Source Something…”
Solving the Halting Problem
What to do about Becoming Enraged By Java
Misbehaving Printers
What ##programming is all about?
How well do Humans Execute Loops?
FizzBees
Crypto Time Exchange
Fine Literature (about svn.php.net)
What’s in a name?
Two men sharing frustrations with their hair.
Trolling konverse the Troll
The Round Trip Delay of Approaching a Girl
Life According To Valentine
How to win over a young boy in a pretend gun fight.
Spreading the love.
Baseless
3 Years Experience in Swift
English Spelling
Who invented Satan?
Zuudolph
Consumers
Day of the Tentacle, like existence, does not exist
Eat or be eaten
SCC - the Socialist Compiler Collection
Get a Cyberclue
How to get a Job?
Expansions of PHP
Sunday Bloody Sunday
Kotlin
Zeno’s “Coding for Nothin’” Song
Bad Taste
Hot Pink
“What’s the Air Velocity of an Unladen Swift?”
Java and JavaScript
An IDE That Does Not Suck
Dramatic Skills
Big JPEGs
Write-only
Windows Update
Vintage HTML and sudo rights
How to increase productivity?
Microsoft Software and Speed
One’s relationship with C
EvilChristmas
macOS
“Demons upon thee, Apple marketing department!”
Windows UpHate
Should I use BitKeeper or GitHub?
rindolf’s bad C code
You’ve got the touch
What is "NP-complete"?
JetBrains’ Products
Whose fault is it?
Unforgivable
Blaming everyone
Putting the U in "FAQ"
Biological Garbage Collection
Upgrading
Pluralism
Progressive Web Applications
SQL interfaces
ZERO nirvana
Nomable browsers
German as he is spoke
Imaginary Mohawk
Copyrighting Fibonacci
Bad Maths Puns
To boldly code
Compilation Speeds
Dogs on the Internet
The voiceless Trashlord
Your Mum Needs a lot of RAM
There are at least two inches in a mile
Educating Machines
Vanilla software and Real Programmers
The European Bundle
Last of the Mercurialians
Prioritizing Money
X-Y Problem
Websites down for maintenance

The Fortunes Themselves

.om

Display

rindolf	ljuwaidah: so aren't there more people who use FOSS in Oman?
ljuwaidah	there are, but they're only a few
rindolf	ljuwaidah: ah.
rindolf	Oman has .om as its TLD.
rindolf	.om .nom .nom
rindolf	p.om p.om
rindolf	kabo.om
rindolf	DJB got the cr.yp.to domain.
rindolf	And there's also ali.as which is Adam Kennedy's.
ljuwaidah	looool
ljuwaidah	rand.om :P
ljuwaidah	do.om :P
ljuwaidah	ro.om
ljuwaidah	m.om
Black_Phoenix	your.m.om
ljuwaidah	hahahaha
ljuwaidah	is that supposed to be a milf site? :P
rindolf	yahoo.c.om
ljuwaidah	bro.om
rindolf	http://yourmom.com/
rindolf	Though it's down now.
ljuwaidah	don't keep your hopes up on .om domains
ljuwaidah	our ISP is a greedy money sucker
rindolf	"I'd rather be a .com than a .om"
ljuwaidah	rindolf: me too
rindolf	ljuwaidah: this was a joke.
rindolf	I have a few .org domains.
rindolf	From GoDaddy
ljuwaidah	unless you need it for a domain trick
* Black_Phoenix	<--- .com bastard here
ljuwaidah	rindolf: where's the joke?
rindolf	ljuwaidah: joke?
rindolf	ljuwaidah: it rhymes.
rindolf	dot-com, dot-om - get it? get it? get it?
rindolf	;-)
ljuwaidah	no :(
rindolf	ljuwaidah: om rhymes with com.
ljuwaidah	so?
rindolf	ljuwaidah: "I'd rather be a dot-com than a dot-om"
rindolf	ljuwaidah: it's just a silly rhyme.
Black_Phoenix	I'd rather a website
rindolf	Black_Phoenix: I accidentally a web-site.
ljuwaidah	I still don't get the joke
Black_Phoenix	rindolf, I'd still rather a blog
rindolf	Black_Phoenix: rather what a blog?
Black_Phoenix	Website a blog
rindolf	ljuwaidah: never mind.
ljuwaidah	sorry, I don't know why I'm slow today
rindolf	Black_Phoenix: do you mean that you would rather be a web-site?
Black_Phoenix	I'd rather website a blog
Black_Phoenix	broken grammar time :D
ljuwaidah	Black_Phoenix: when did website become a verb?
Black_Phoenix	it didn't
Black_Phoenix	I'm using it as a verb to produce nonsense
ljuwaidah	I sense light!
ljuwaidah	{I see}
rindolf	ljuwaidah: http://www.google.com.om/
ljuwaidah	rindolf: I know
rindolf	If Google can do it - so can you.
ljuwaidah	I don't use it
ljuwaidah	'cause some services don't work on it
rindolf	ljuwaidah: ah.
rindolf	ljuwaidah: in any case, seems like one can register a .com.om domain.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The .om domain
Published	2009-12-14

With what to write code?

Display

Quetzalcoatl_	How do I write a computer vision program in C on a microcontroller?
dyf	Quetzalcoatl_: with a text editor?
Quetzalcoatl_	Hmm.. Never thought of that. But which editor? Is Notepad good enough?
mauke	no, you need at least Wordpad
rindolf	mauke: I suggest MS Word or at least OpenOffice.org
rindolf	mauke: but in order to really be able to write well, you need a desktop publishing program like Scribus or Adobe FrameMaker.
* rindolf	wonders which compiler will accept PDFs as input.
waiting	rindolf: /usr/bin/pdftotext
rindolf	waiting: and pray.
rindolf	There's an esoteric programming language called Piet (I think) that accepts images as input.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	How to write stylistic code
Published	2009-12-14

Your Emacs is so fat

Display

rindolf	Deiu: which editor are you using?
Deiu	Ugh, let me catch up with the convo first
Deiu	And yeah, I use vim too
rindolf	Deiu: ah good. If you were using Eight Megabytes And Continuously Swapping , I would have to swap you with it!
rindolf	I have a column of vim tips on one of my blogs.
rindolf	I also like Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift.
rindolf	There are a lot of jokes about Emacs.
Zuu	There are lots of jokes about your mom too ;)
rindolf	Zuu: eMom
Zuu	eh?
rindolf	e-Macs -> eMum
rindolf	"Your Mom is so fat, only Emacs takes more memory than her."
Zuu	nope, doesn't work
rindolf	Zuu: :-(
Zuu	Your emacs is so fat that your mom could fit in it
rindolf	Heh.
Zuu	ahhh, yes, much better
rindolf	Zuu++
Zuu	:P
→dbm	has joined ##programming
* rindolf	stores some key/value pairs in dbm
* Zuu	stores some moms in dbm
dbm	lol
rindolf	Zuu: you overflowed him.
Zuu	:>
dbm	;)
rindolf	Or her, don't know.
rindolf	them.
dbm	'him'
rindolf	OK.
rindolf	dbm: I don't recall your nick.
dbm	dbm= don't bother me
rindolf	don't be mean.
dbm	;)
Zuu	or: do bother me

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Your Emacs is so fat
Published	2009-12-14

Why XSLT is so evil?

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→xmler	has joined ##programming
xmler	Hi
xmler	How can I do <a href="$variable">blah</a> in XSLT?
rindolf	xmler: you can use <xsl:attribute>
rindolf	xmler: or use ${...}
rindolf	xmler: have you read the Zvon XSLT tutorial?
xmler	rindolf: I've read various resources; perhaps it's the fault of XML::XSLT on CPAN
rindolf	xmler: use XML::LibXSLT instead.
rindolf	It's faster and better.
Zuu	<insert mean statement about XSLT>
Zuu	:)
rindolf	"XSLT is the work of Satan"
rindolf	"It's the worst thing since non-sliced bread."
Zuu	Hahaha :D
rindolf	"Mothers used to tell their children about XSLT to scare them."
xmler	Haha
Zuu	That last one is good
xmler	XSLT seems pretty cool
Zuu	xmler, no no, that's not mean
Zuu	you're doing it wrong
Zuu	:P
xmler	XSLT is too cool to be mean to :p
Zuu	Hehe
rindolf	"XSLT is the number one cause of programmers' suicides since Visual Basic 1.0"
tommy_the-dragon	lol
Zuu	:>
Zuu	I could believe in that
rindolf	"The X in XSLT stands for eXtermination."
rindolf	"XSLT makes the baby jesus cry."
rindolf	"The only things worse than XSLT are Excel and sugarless tea."
tommy_the-dragon	rofl
* Zuu	kinda likes Excel
rindolf	Zuu: yes, it was a joke.
Zuu	Noooh!
Zuu	they are all true!
rindolf	Now I'm out of ideas.
Zuu	i haven’t even had a single idea yet..
rindolf	"XSLT is what Chuck Norris has nightmares of."
Zuu	Whoah!
Zuu	wait.. that would somehow make XSLT cooler than Chuck Norris...
Zuu	Chuck Norris don't have mightmares
rindolf	"Confucius e says: 'XSLT made me realise humanity was hopeless."
Zuu	"Even APL wont make friends with XSLT"
Zuu	yay, i maded one!
rindolf	"God considered using XSLT as the tenth plague of Egypt, but thought it was too evil."
rindolf	Zuu: :-)
Zuu	Haha :D
Zuu	that plague one is awesome
rindolf	"In Soviet Russia, XSLT codes you. Badly!"
rindolf	"Satan condemned Hitler for a million years of writing XSLT"
rindolf	OK, back to work.
rindolf	C - not XSLT.
Zuu	:)
rindolf	"The KGB used to torture their victims by having them look at scrolling XSLT code"
xmler	rindolf: lol, love the KGB + XSLT one
xmler	rindolf: by the way, what's with the XSLT hate by the way, is it some kind of meme? :p
* Zuu	gives xmler an XSLT interpreter written in XSLT
Jck_true	I wanna make ASM code from XSLT
rindolf	"My name is Inigo Montoya. You forced my father to write XSLT. Prepare to die! And be thankful I don't force you to write XSLT."
xmler	Ah for gawd's sake. Can't install XML::LibXML, it says I don't have libxml2 (I do)
rindolf	xmler: do you have the -devel package?
rindolf	xmler: what is your distro?
rindolf	OS distro I mean.
xmler	rindolf: Debian 4.0
xmler	Ooh, perhaps I don't actually
rindolf	xmler: OK, then apt-get install libxml-libxslt-perl
* Zuu	have to go o/
rindolf	xmler: maybe we should discuss it on #perl?
rindolf	Zuu: bye
rindolf	Zuu: and beware of stray XSLT code.
Zuu	I will :P
rindolf	Zuu: OK.
xmler	rindolf: sure, uno memento :)

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Chuck Norris is out! XSLT is in!
Published	2009-12-14

Introducing dazjorz to Zuu

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dazjorz	rindolf!
dazjorz	areth thou here?
rindolf	Hi dazjorz
dazjorz	:)
rindolf	dazjorz: yes, I are here.
dazjorz	isn't it kind of weird to have a programming channel when there are language specific channels around?
Zuu	Muhah!
rindolf	dazjorz: this is about programming in general.
rindolf	At least theoretically.
rindolf	And VB.NET questions.
joeyadams	Well, ##programming is a good place to ask C questions and actually get helpful answers :)
dazjorz	rindolf: did you intentionally make it look like VB.NET is not programming?
rindolf	dazjorz: meet Zuu - he's into Windows and D and stuff.
dazjorz	!
rindolf	dazjorz: no.
rindolf	dazjorz: VB.NET is programming.
dazjorz	hey Zuu, I'm dazjorz, I'm into Linux and c and stuff.
rindolf	But it has its own channel.
Zuu	:>
dazjorz	rindolf: I've been thinking about changing nicks
rindolf	dazjorz: ah. so did I.
* Zuu	is into everything sane, except the boring stuff
rindolf	dazjorz: to what?
dazjorz	rindolf: my current one is waaaay too lame, but "sjors" is probably too generic
rindolf	dazjorz: I like dazjorz
dazjorz	rindolf: I don't, because when people see my name is sjors, da zjorz is just too lame to bear
dazjorz	rindolf: I was thinking about sjors, or some three-letter abbreviation of my name, sjg or so
Zuu	how about.... 'carrot' ?
dazjorz	I think I do prefer dazjorz over carrot
Zuu	no worries, i promise not to stuff you up rindolf's tomato nose
Zuu	hum :<
dazjorz	Zuu: when I first read your nick on Shlomi's site five minutes ago, I asked him whether you were a mix between Zorix and Buu
dazjorz	do you know the two?
rindolf	Zoffix and buu.
Zuu	nope
dazjorz	uh Zoffix yeah
dazjorz	Zuu: okay, well, you don't know them, but believe me, I'm glad you're not a mix of the two, that would be horrible :P
Zuu	I'm a mix of much worse personalities I'm sure
Zuu	most of them just happen to cancel each other out

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Introducing dazjorz to Zuu
Published	2009-12-14

Reindeers, Tomatoes and Nicks

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rindolf	dazjorz: I considered switching my default nick to "shlomif", because that's how most people know me.
dazjorz	rindolf: yeah, it's your alternative nick now right?
rindolf	dazjorz: but then XChat 2 reverted to the old nick and I was too lazy.
unreal	You seem to have many, well, stupid friends, rindolf :P
rindolf	dazjorz: yes, I have it registered.
rindolf	unreal: stupid?
Zuu	rindolf, noo! what to do about the tomato then? fish don't have big tomato noses!
rindolf	Zuu: fish?
rindolf	Zuu: I'll give you a tomato.
Zuu	good question
rindolf	I'll give you the tomato back.
Zuu	where do i get fish from
Zuu	no no, keep it :D
rindolf	Zuu: my last name is Fish.
* tommy_the-dragon	slaps Zuu with a fish
tommy_the-dragon	there ya go
dazjorz	rindolf: I just registered 'sjors'
* rindolf	gives a fish to Zuu
dazjorz	rindolf: as a nick.
Zuu	rindolf, that is just absurd, a reindeer with 'fish' as surname...
Zuu	your parents must have hated you
rindolf	Open source: "everyone contributes a fish, and in exchange everyone gets their own ocean."
rindolf	dazjorz: ah, cool.
Zuu	tommy_the-dragon, does dragons eat other animals, like fish?
unreal	Ocean == Big Momma's Bath?
rindolf	Zuu: I'm not a reindeer - I just play one on T.V.
tommy_the-dragon	not fish...
tommy_the-dragon	just reindeers
Zuu	tommy_the-dragon, what about fake TV reindeers ?
Zuu	Nice :D
rindolf	unreal: no, the whole enchilada.
rindolf	tommy_the-dragon: LOL.
tommy_the-dragon	and enchiladas
dazjorz	rindolf: I know someone whose nick is Stonehead, he made his three-letter acronym stn, but usually it's letters from the first name
dazjorz	uh
dazjorz	the full name
dazjorz	yours could be shf for example, and everybody would know "hey, that's Shlomi"
dazjorz	but I'm at most sg, so I need to borrow another letter somewhere, or make it daz or just sjors
* dazjorz	thinks
tommy_the-dragon	my cat eats flies...
rindolf	dazjorz: I hate these three letter acronyms.
Zuu	Shlomi really sounds like some dish made of reindeer
tommy_the-dragon	but he's lucky because i don't eat cats
rindolf	Zuu: heh.
unreal	heh
rindolf	tommy_the-dragon: I didn't know dragons had cats.
dazjorz	what's the name of the red-nosed reindeer again?
Zuu	it sounds edible at least
dazjorz	oh rudolf :)
rindolf	dazjorz: Randolph.
dazjorz	oh
unreal	I used to have a friend whose nick was "crap"
rindolf	unreal: wow.
dazjorz	<someguy> crap, someone stole my bicycle
dazjorz	<crap> OK?
rindolf	dazjorz: heh.
dazjorz	rindolf: why don't you like the three-letter acronyms?
rindolf	dazjorz: often too confusing.
rindolf	dazjorz: and two easy to mistype.
rindolf	dazjorz: and not too memorable.
unreal	LIS.
dazjorz	three easy to mistype, I think
rindolf	And often hard to pronounce.
dazjorz	maybe I'll just go with sjors
rindolf	too easy. Freudian.
rindolf	dazjorz: yes, I think that's a good idea.
unreal	(Lies, I say!)
dazjorz	hehe, rindolf++ # Freudian
Zuu	or you could pick something girly and hope people will treat you nicer :)
rindolf	dazjorz: have you played with the farnsworth bot yet?
rindolf	Zuu: RinGirl
rindolf	Though nicks with "Girl " in them tend to draw too much attention.
Zuu	nah, it cant contain 'girl' that just seems fake
dazjorz	rindolf: I have
dazjorz	rindolf: remind me to fix knotify, khtml, and quassel :(
rindolf	dazjorz: nice.
rindolf	dazjorz: using MemoServ?
dazjorz	rindolf: the bugs annoy me, a lot, but I never get around to actually trying to fix them
rindolf	Zuu: maybe I should call myself "Shlomi". Americans will think I'm a girl.
Zuu	yeah, it kinda have a girlish sound to it
dazjorz	rindolf: call yourself "Shloma", Dutch people will think you're over sixty and female
rindolf	dazjorz: heh.
dazjorz	let me rephrase that
dazjorz	Dutch people will think you're female... and over sixty
dazjorz	(oma = grandma)
rindolf	dazjorz: ah.
unreal	kloot.
rindolf	In Hebrew nouns that end with "ah" tend to be feminine.
dazjorz	Shlomah?
rindolf	Seriously now, if I change my nick it will be to shlomif.
dazjorz	let's change our nicks at the same time
rindolf	Well, in Shlomi's case it would be Shlomith.
dazjorz	I will be sjors, you will be shlomif
rindolf	dazjorz: OK.
* rindolf	is now known as shlomif
dazjorz	shit, now I have to
Zuu	what does "shlomif" even mean ?
* dazjorz	is now known as sjors
sjors	Zuu: Shlomi = his first name, f = the first letter of his last name
shlomif	sjors: hi.
shlomif	Zuu: Shlomi Fish.
sjors	hi shlomif
shlomif	Hi sjors
tommy_the-dragon	where does rindolf come into it?
shlomif	sjors: my nick is longer than yours.
Zuu	oh lol, and i just said his name sound girly :P
* Zuu	pat pats shlomif ^^
shlomif	tommy_the-dragon: Rindolf was a dwarven warrior I played in AD&D.
tommy_the-dragon	ahh OK
* shlomif	gives Zuu his tomato back.
Zuu	:<
shlomif	Since I'm no longer a reindeer.
sjors	shlomif: that's just to compensate against something you have that's way shorter than mine
shlomif	sjors: LOL.
shlomif	sjors++
Zuu	Erhmm.. shlomif! how come there's this big hole in it?
tommy_the-dragon	sorry...
tommy_the-dragon	my bad
Zuu	Hehe
* shlomif	doesn't like raw tomatoes.
shlomif	But I eat them with pasta, etc.
shlomif	Or as meat sauce.
Zuu	or in sandwiches
shlomif	sjors: anyway, welcome to ##programming
Zuu	or on reindeer nose
shlomif	sjors: I'll probably revert to "rindolf" after next disconnect.
shlomif	Zuu: after you cook the entire reindeer.
* shlomif	is a reindeer cannibal.
shlomif	Well, rindolf is.
Zuu	yes, but he ran away
shlomif	I also like dried and olive oiled tomatoes.
sjors	shlomif: I just changed my clients' settings to reconnect as sjors, too
shlomif	Well, I think I'll go to sleep.
shlomif	sjors: ah.
sjors	shlomif: it'll probably take a while to "adapt" to sjors instead of dazjorz
shlomif	sjors: well, enjoy your new nick.
sjors	and I still have dazjorz.com, and not sjors.anything
* Zuu	tugs shlomif in
sjors	thanks ;)
shlomif	Zuu: thanks.
* Zuu	quickly squeezes a fresh tomato onto shlomif's nose
sjors	shlomif: sjors.biz and sjors.mobi at most
* shlomif	doesn't have rindolf.{com,org,net} etc.
shlomif	sjors: maybe sjors.in
shlomif	I got a shlom.in
sjors	sjors.indahou.se
shlomif	sjors: heh.
sjors	sjors.ac, sjors.ag, sjors.am, sjors.at
sjors	hehe sjors.me
sjors	sjors.pl, too bad i don't really do perl any more
shlomif	sjors: there's also .sh
sjors	sjors.sh, too bad I don't really do shell script a lot
shlomif	Or .im
sjors	sjors.tv, too bad I don't really watch..
tommy_the-dragon	do you own a mobile?
shlomif	.tv are pretty costly.
sjors	meh I don't like sjors. anyway, so I'll just keep dazjorz for everything
tommy_the-dragon	yeah what's with that (the price of .tv)?
shlomif	tommy_the-dragon: it's the foundation of the economy of Tuvalu.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Reindeers, Tomatoes and Normalising Nicks
Published	2009-12-14

SNAFU Cake

Display

* rindolf	tries to think what can cause the KDE 4 SNAFU on his user.
rindolf	And hopefully to avoid bisecting the KDE 4 config tree.
Zuu	snafu... that wounds like a delicious cake :D
Zuu	*sounds
rindolf	Zuu: Situation Normal - All F****ed up.
Zuu	:/
* Zuu	gives the snafu cake to Dmage :D
Zuu	Dmage, just eat the cake already
Dmage	Zuu, are you hate my English? ;)
Zuu	i hate your non-English
Black_Phoenix	I English your hate
Dmage	xD
Zuu	Dmage, but i don't hate you! :D
Black_Phoenix	and now I can do that
Dmage	Zuu, learn Russian then! :)
Zuu	Hehe
Zuu	Dmage, i think you'd hate my Russian far more than i would ever hate your English
rindolf	Spasiva.
Dmage	xD
Dmage	learn 'Eto huinya!'
* Zuu	steals the snafu cake back from Dmage and gives it to rindolf instead
Dmage	and apply everywhere
* rindolf	eats the SNAFU cake
Zuu	:D
* rindolf	eats Zuu's Danish too.
Zuu	Noooh!
* rindolf	loves Zuu's Danish.
rindolf	Yum yum.
Zuu	tis mine!
Zuu	My daaaanish :'(
rindolf	My precioussssssssss!
Zuu	tis gone :<

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	SNAFU Cake
Published	2009-12-14

What is Qantor?

Display

rindolf	What should I do now?
rindolf	I'll work on Text-Qantor.
rindolf	It's so great not to have a job.
Zuu	yeah, if someone else pays for the food it sure is :D
Zuu	also, i don't really understand much of what you just told me :P
* Zuu	puts a stick into the Text-Qantor
rindolf	Zuu: Qantor == Qantor ain't no TeX/Troff oh really.
rindolf	It's a typesetting system I'm working on.
* Zuu	hates the name
Zuu	it makes me kinda mad actually :/
rindolf	Zuu: :-)
rindolf	Zuu: maybe it will grow on you.
rindolf	Zuu: some people I know named a browser suckass.
Zuu	:(
rindolf	I refused to work on it.
Zuu	see that's a name!
rindolf	Zuu: heh.
Zuu	i didn't mean that BTW :)
Zuu	suckass is kinda... unkind
rindolf	OK, now I should write an http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/XSLT/ transformation.
rindolf	I'll start from something I already have.
Zuu	But the "X ain't no <something related>" is just a lame naming convention IMHO
Zuu	yeah, work on some XSLT facts :D
rindolf	Zuu: just call it Qantor then.
rindolf	Without the mnemonics.
Zuu	but anyone interested will learn that it's an abbreviation
Zuu	just by the fact that it's recursive makes me want to kill myself a little bit more :P
rindolf	Zuu: do me a break and kill yourself.
Zuu	:>
rindolf	Less Zuus - more grass for evil reindeers like me to feed on.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	What is Qantor?
Published	2009-12-14

Turing Hard

Display

rindolf	Pythack now was able to get the fc-solve test suite up and running.
Zuu	eh?!
* Zuu	solves rindolf
rindolf	Zuu: http://fc-solve.berlios.de/
rindolf	Zuu: I am not solvable.
rindolf	I am Turing hard.
Zuu	:S
* Zuu	never heard of anything called 'turing hard'
joeyadams	lol. Zuu's probabilistic, so maybe he can solve you.
Zuu	but i guess i have now
joeyadams	Formal definition of Turing hard: blah blah blah hard blah blah Turing blah.
Zuu	Hahahaha :D
joeyadams	Wikipedia: Given a set X in P(N), a set A in N is called Turing hard for X if X <=_T A for all X in X. If additionally A is in X, then A is called Turing complete for X.
joeyadams	Does that clarify?
joeyadams	(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_reduction for the actual math symbols)
* joeyadams	assumes you get the point
Zuu	yeah, i think i'll have to put significant time into that, for me to comprehend it :)
Zuu	but maybe i will, some day :P
joeyadams	My point is that people like to use mumbo jumbo to describe more concise mumbo jumbo.
joeyadams	E.g. A problem is NP-hard if it is at least as hard as all the problems in NP.
Zuu	i understand enough of it, to be fairly confident that rindolf being turing hard, will not say much about his ability to be solved
joeyadams	I'm guessing Turing-hard means you can't solve a problem with a Turing machine (e.g. the halting problem)
joeyadams	(substitute Turing machine with "your computer" :) )
Zuu	no, turing hard has something to do with expressiveness
joeyadams	okay, Zuu > joeyadams, so I can't help you :)
* Zuu	tickles joeyadams ^^
joeyadams	A delicious apple is any fruit ∈ apple that is at least as tasty as any other fruit ∈ apple.
joeyadams	In other words, apples are in the set of recursively nommable fruits.
rindolf	joeyadams: what's up?
joeyadams	I'm babbling.
rindolf	joeyadams: Apple is one of my least favourite fruits.
* Zuu	watches a number of apples that recursively NOM's each other
rindolf	It tends to be too commonplace.
rindolf	Or simpleton.
joeyadams	whoops, my logic is incorrect
joeyadams	Only delicious apples are ∈ the nommable fruits.
joeyadams	(recursively is just a word you throw in to sound smart)
* Zuu	NOMs joeyadams :>
rindolf	joeyadams: a friend of one of my sisters said that Apple is his favourite fruit.
rindolf	Ta-zuu!
* joeyadams	has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection nommed by peer))
Zuu	yeah, unfortunately a lot of people throw with a lot of words to sound smart :/
Zuu	my favourite fruit is a recursive banana!
joeyadams	although it certainly helps to use complex terminology to solve complex problems. As Aristophanes said, "High thoughts must have high language."
Zuu	.. along with immutable polymorphic pears
joeyadams	Zuu> I guess you have to peel it indefinitely?
joeyadams	lol
Zuu	Hahah, yeah :P
joeyadams	I tend to eat bananas in deterministic polynomial time.
Zuu	i eat them in linear time, but uses exponential space
joeyadams	lol
rindolf	Heh.
joeyadams	eww

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Turing Hard
Published	2009-12-14

The Ultimate ##programming Showdown

Display

→ecere	has joined ##programming
ljuwaidah	yo ecere!!
Zuu	yay, life :)
* Zuu	tickles ljuwaidah
* ljuwaidah	punches Zuu in the face
* Zuu	starts crying :'(
rindolf	Fight!
rindolf	Fight! Fight!
* Zuu	runs home to mommy
rindolf	Let's get ready to rumble!!!
* ljuwaidah	punches rindolf in the face
ljuwaidah	for encouraging the fight, that is
Zuu	hehe
* rindolf	uses his Evil Antlers to summon a squadron of Chuck Norrises.
Zuu	oh my!
* rindolf	unleashes the Chuck Norrises upon ljuwaidah
* ljuwaidah	uses his anti-chuck-norris spell
Zuu	those antlers must be the most evil thing in the entire universe
Zuu	*antlers
rindolf	ljuwaidah: your spell only works on one chuck norris at a day.
rindolf	And I have 119 more.
rindolf	Finish him!
Zuu	i wonder what will happen if one Chuck Norris accidentally punches another
ljuwaidah	rindolf: then lemme use my duplication spell to make more of myself so THEY can use the spell
rindolf	ljuwaidah: heh.
rindolf	ljuwaidah++
ljuwaidah	thanks :D
rindolf	ljuwaidah: two can play this game.
* rindolf	runs his recursive copying spell making lots of Evil rindolf reindeers exponentially.
rindolf	Like Bacteria.
ljuwaidah	darn! i didn't see that coming
ljuwaidah	but you also forgot that if _I_ can duplicate myself then so can my duplicates B-)

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The Ultimate ##programming Showdown
Published	2009-12-14

ispy Emulating a Clueless Newbie

Display

→ispy_	has joined ##programming
ispy_	hi gang.
ispy_	I'm a n00b programmer and think I should learn A and B before C, right?
std_orb	ispy_: General understanding should come before that.
ispy_	std_orb: I have no idea what I'm doing...
std_orb	ispy_: I can see that
* ispy_	kicks the dirt...
tommy_the-dragon	I've been meaning to get into it
ispy_	Is C like JavaScript?
ispy_	Same thing right?
tommy_the-dragon	ispy_: lol
rindolf	ispy_: Perl is more like C than JS is.
ispy_	rindolf: Never heard of Perl... I should Google that.
rindolf	ispy_: use Bing search instead.
rindolf	Or Altavista.
Terminus	rindolf: i see.
ispy_	rindolf, std_orb, tommy_the-dragon ... thanks for the pointers :)
rindolf	ispy_: you should learn Intercal, it's the most expressive language possible.
ispy_	rindolf: Sounds exciting!
Terminus	Intercal... lol!
ispy_	haha
ispy_	OK OK OK... I can't continue this... I'm practically laughing my ass off at my desk.
rindolf	:-)
ispy_	hehe

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Emulating a Clueless Newbie
Published	2009-12-14

What kind of animal is Zuu?

Display

Zuu	Hai all
rindolf	Zuu: hai hai.
rindolf	Zuu: what's up , kit?
rindolf	Zuu: or what are you , I forgot?
Zuu	Hai rindolf :D
rindolf	I am a reindeer.
rindolf	But also a Llama.
rindolf	And a cat.
Zuu	I'm a Zuu
rindolf	And a fish naturally.
rindolf	Zuu: ah , OK.
Zuu	:D
* rindolf	creates a Zoo of Zuus
Zuu	^^
rindolf	Are you the master Zuu?
rindolf	Like Q is the master of the Q's in Star Trek?
Zuu	i think I'm the only Zuu
rindolf	Oh, one of a kind.
Zuu	Which is kinda sad really :(
Zuu	Who am i supposed to mate with?
rindolf	Reminds me of http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Blue-Rabbit-Log/ideas.xhtml
rindolf	Though I need to add that part.
rindolf	Let me do it now.
Zuu	whatever webserver you use, it doesn't provide the right mimetype... At least IE 8 don't attempt to render the document
rindolf	Zuu: you cannot using IE 8
rindolf	Zuu: you need Firefox.
rindolf	Zuu: it's application/xml+xhtml
rindolf	Or Opera.
Zuu	well, it indeed is the right mimetype... stupid IE
Zuu	well, my FF crashed, so i just use IE when that happens
rindolf	Zuu: ah.
rindolf	FF crashed?
rindolf	How strange.
rindolf	Maybe you have a bad plugin.
Zuu	It does that around 6 times a day
rindolf	Not an extension - a plugin.
rindolf	Ah, really.
rindolf	Something is wrong in the Zuuniverse.
rindolf	Or Zuumputer.
Zuu	nah, i suspect one of the tabs are just doing some strange stuff
Zuu	memory leaking javascript ro something like that
Zuu	it is kinda starting to annoy me
Zuu	but with 90 - 120 tabs, it would take quite a while to find out what tab it is
Zuu	you might consider starting your articles, or whatever this is, with an introduction telling what it's about
rindolf	Zuu: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Blue-Rabbit-Log/ideas.xhtml#the-angry-demon
rindolf	Zuu: it's not an article - these are random ideas for a screenplay.
rindolf	Zuu: but I'll write an intro.
Zuu	start the page with "Here are some of my random ideas for a screen play I'm writing:"
Zuu	at LEAST!
Zuu	you cant just jump right into something without giving _any_ indication ow what the reader can expect
Zuu	it simply doesn't make any sense as it is now
Zuu	you could just as well have posted a log of ljuwaidah talking :P
rindolf	Zuu: thanks.
Zuu	:)
rindolf	Zuu: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Blue-Rabbit-Log/ideas.xhtml#intro
rindolf	Interactive Web!
Zuu	i think you have forgotten to define the #intro anchor
rindolf	Zuu: reload.
rindolf	Zuu: it's there.
Zuu	hah, caches... :P
Zuu	:D
rindolf	Pesky things.
rindolf	Evil reindeers don't like caches.
rindolf	Neither do cats.
rindolf	I'm an evil reindeer but a good cat.
Zuu	Hehe
rindolf	Don't know how it works.
rindolf	I guess good and evil are relative.
rindolf	Or actually I wore a helmet of alignment change.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	What kind of animal is a Zuu?
Published	2009-12-14

Meaning of the Zuu species

Display

Zuu	Hi rindolf :)
rindolf	Hi Zuu
rindolf	Zuu: I've been thinking that maybe you can find some corresponding Zuus of the appropriate sex in a different dimension.
Zuu	hmmm... interesting!
rindolf	Zuu: are you a heterosexual Zuu or a homosexual one?
Zuu	I'm not sure what sex I am.
rindolf	Zuu: ah.
Zuu	:P
rindolf	Zuu: you can look.
rindolf	Zuu: in the mirror or something.
rindolf	Zuu: don't you have obligatory genders in Danish/
rindolf	?
rindolf	Like in German, French, etc.
rindolf	Or Hebrew and Arabic.
Zuu	obligatory genders?
Zuu	you mean, the genders in linguistics?
* Zuu	never understood those
Zuu	but Danish have two i believe, and if i remember correctly there is female and 'none'
rindolf	Zuu: yes, genders in linguistics.
Zuu	i don't remember what which is which though :P
rindolf	Like in Hebrew "Haben Halakh lagan" - the boy went to the garden. "Habath Halkha lagan" - "The girl went to the garden"
c_sphere	That almost sounds like allah akbar
Zuu	rindolf, no we don't distinct between the genders of the subject in the danish language
Zuu	our nouns have genders though
c_sphere	zuu-nina?
Zuu	like 'house' is one gender and 'car' is another
rindolf	Zuu: of course the question is - what language do Zuus speak natively?
c_sphere	rindolf: Of course, Zuu speaks Zuu!
rindolf	Zuuish?
c_sphere	The Zulu population also does not speak Zuluish, just Zulu.
Zuu	so if you want to say 'the house' its 'huse_t_' and if you want to say 'the car' its 'bile_n_'
rindolf	c_sphere: Arnavoth (sounds like an Aztec god) is "Hares" (the Rabbit-like mammal) in Hebrew.
rindolf	Zuu: can you understand Swedish?
Zuu	rindolf, some :)
rindolf	Zuu: ah.
Zuu	swedish branched from danish AFAIK
Zuu	same with norwegian
Zuu	yes, Zuu's speak Zuuish natively :P
* rindolf	is listening to Hans Zimmer - Jack Sparrow
rindolf	Zuu: ah.
Zuu	Zuuish has few words, all of which is based on words about cake from other languages :P
Zuu	c_sphere, are you by any chance related to s_cube ?
rindolf	Zuu: ah, what do you use the Hebrew word "עוגיה" (= `ugiyah, cookie) for?
rindolf	"Chocolate chip pie crust marmalade marzipan cookie yum yum!"
Zuu	i use it for cookies baked from a hebrew recipe :P
rindolf	What does it mean in Zuuish?
Zuu	it's hard to really say something in Zuuish... al you can really do is say something equivalent to "COOKIES!!"
Zuu	or "YAY CAKE!"
Zuu	basically, you can only express excitement over different kinds of cakes :P
rindolf	Zuu: do Zuus eat anything except cakes or cookies?
Zuu	There was this one time...
Zuu	wait.. no. That was someone else.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	What can a Zuu do?
Published	2009-12-14

##programming about Real Programmers

Display

rindolf	Chekov: I disagree with what ESR says in TAOUP that you shouldn't apply factor optimisations. I think they can make a very large difference.
rindolf	Chekov: he seems to imply you should wait until computers are fast enough.
rindolf	Problem is people don't want to upgrade and if a competing program (maybe a fork ) is much faster, then some of them will switch.
rindolf	Programs being speedy is one thing that makes me happy.
rindolf	I love all the work the KDE people did in making KDE-4.6.0 fast.
vanguard	rindolf: awesome blog link!
rindolf	And I enjoy the fact that Pidgin is much faster than Kopete (and also less buggy).
rindolf	I've used Kopete for far too long.
osoleve	rindolf: switch to Irssi and Bitlbee! :D
rindolf	vanguard: yes.
rindolf	vanguard: though they failed on Google Wave.
rindolf	osoleve: nah, I like Pidgin.
rindolf	osoleve: it's fast enough for me.
rindolf	osoleve: and I also prefer XChat.
osoleve	but is it nerdy enough?
rindolf	osoleve: I'm not trying to be a Ubergeek.
rindolf	osoleve: real men use Xmonad!
vanguard	Hey, it is not Uber but Über ... :D
rindolf	real programmers use butterflies.
Chekov	real programmers are Tao
osoleve	real programmers flip bits by hand
Chekov	real programmers speak assembly
rindolf	Chuck Norris is a real programmer who implements the most optimised machines for solving a problem out of physical atoms.
vanguard	real programmers use a nice editor and a programming language and get done in less than O(N!)

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Real Programmers
Published	2011-03-19

Semicolons

Display

wes_	tell me how can u print a message without using a semicolon in the printg statement
rindolf	wes_: in C?
rindolf	wes_: do you mean the printf(...) statement?
wes_	yes
rindolf	wes_: you cannot without using macros I think.
rindolf	wes_: and don't use macros for that.
wes_	i mean without using a semicolon at the printf statement but you have to use printf only
rindolf	wes_: why would you want to do that?
rindolf	wes_: what do you have against semicolons?
rindolf	Some of my best friends are semicolons.
lulzfish_4	semicolons got me where I am today man
rindolf	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semicolon
rindolf	lulzfish_4: heh.
rindolf	"I owe it all to semicolons."
amigojapan	hey rindolf lulzfish_4
rindolf	Hi amigojapan
rindolf	amigojapan: what's up?
* rindolf	gives a semicolon to amigojapan
* amigojapan	returns a whitespace to rindolf
rindolf	amigojapan: that's not fair trade.
rindolf	But I'll treasure the whitespace.
amigojapan	rindolf: a whitespace is just as valuable as a semicolon in python :)
rindolf	amigojapan: aren't semicolons optional in Py?
amigojapan	rindolf: I think they are
amigojapan	rindolf: actually, a whitespace can be as valuable as 2 curly braces :)
rindolf	amigojapan: heh.
rindolf	amigojapan: you need 4 spaces to distinguish stuff properly.
amigojapan	rindolf: one thing I never got about python is why they need the : after if and for statements....
* PythonSnake	gives a colon to rindolf
PythonSnake	:)
amigojapan	rindolf: actually, I prefer using tabs to 4 spaces...
rindolf	PythonSnake: thanks for the colon.
PythonSnake	rindolf: lol
rindolf	PythonSnake: I'll give you a « and a » in exchange.
PythonSnake	lol
amigojapan	rindolf: the fact that you don't have a rule to how much white space you must use to indent in python, I think is a bad thing...
* PythonSnake	finds a interrobang
PythonSnake	:)
amigojapan	rindolf: if it is 4 spaces then fine, but make it a rule so it is consistent
GeDaMo	‽
PythonSnake	lol
PythonSnake	‽
PythonSnake	∴
PythonSnake	‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡
rindolf	¿
PythonSnake	₳ ฿ ₵ ¢ ₡ ₢ ₠ $ ₫ ৳ ₯ € ƒ ₣ ₲ ₴ ₭ ℳ ₥ ₦ ₧ ₱ ₰
PythonSnake	:)
amigojapan	rindolf: oh, now you are speaking spanish
rindolf	amigojapan: :-)
PythonSnake	all: :)
rindolf	¡I am!
amigojapan	うるさいよ　文字化け
PythonSnake	Jag förvrängd bullriga
PythonSnake	איך גאַרבאַלד טומלדיק
PythonSnake	:)
amigojapan	ah, hebrew
amigojapan	hir something....
PythonSnake	º, ª
amigojapan	man, I forgot how to read hebrew
rindolf	amigojapan: איך גאַרבאַלד טומלדיק seems like Yiddish.
amigojapan	rindolf: ah, OK.... can you change it into roman letters for me?
rindolf	amigojapan: Ich Garbald Tomldiq.
amigojapan	ich would be I
amigojapan	I think I only know curse words in Yiddish :P
PythonSnake	ich bin masaru
lulzfish_4	ich bin ein berlinner
* rindolf	is eating watermelon.
amigojapan	rindolf: save a piece for me :)
rindolf	amigojapan: I'll save a semicolon for you.
PiX3L	rindolf: For me too. :)
amigojapan	rindolf: a semicolon looks a lot like two pits of a watermelon
* amigojapan	steals PiX3L 's piece

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Give Your Friend a Semicolon Today
Published	2011-06-12

Calculator

Display

Endiannes	vinleod, Yes, he wants to find a solution which yields a point 10 units away, your solution yields a point, exactly 7.66044 units away
Endiannes	vinleod, Oh wait
Endiannes	vinleod, I'm an idiot, didn't factor out cos
Endiannes	vinleod, Yes you're right.
* Endiannes	kicks calculator
vinleod	hehe, I was in the process of writing a python script to prove it.
* speedrunnerG55	picks up Endiannes's calculator
speedrunnerG55	NEVER KICK YOUR CALCULATOR
CryWolf	Kicking your calculator is a sin
Endiannes	At least its not a cos.
vinleod	but you should at least get a tan
rindolf	Heh.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Calculator
Published	2011-09-06

The Universal Die

Display

monsterwizard	Ok so I know javascript, PHP, perl in some detail. However, I want to become good at one. I was thinking Perl?
rindolf	monsterwizard: roll a die.
monsterwizard	rindolf the die showed a 7 :S
rindolf	monsterwizard: heh.
hmm	lol
rindolf	monsterwizard: strange die.
hmm	throw away the die
* rindolf	throws the die at hmm
* hmm	catches
rindolf	die, die, die!
* hmm	wants to live
rindolf	hmm: but the die wants to die.
rindolf	Take it out of its misery.
hmm	who knows, even the die isn't ready to die
rindolf	hmm: dice should be diced.
rindolf	dice on ice.
hmm	yeah, go dice the dice

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The Universal Die
Published	2011-11-17

I Wanna Be a Hacker

Display

* hackerhackingcan	(~hackingca@117.202.19.189) has joined ##programming
hackerhackingcan	Hi friends
hackerhackingcan	I am also new to hacking
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: hi.
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: I hope you mean software development - not computer intrusion.
hackerhackingcan	what means intrusion?
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: it means breaking into other people's systems.
hackerhackingcan	I want to hack the internet websites like Google and facebook
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: hack?
hackerhackingcan	can you help please?
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: hack into?
hackerhackingcan	yes I am new but I will try and learn
hackerhackingcan	but can you help me rindolf?
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: we won't help you break into systems.
pkkm	wut? hack into Google?
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: with what?
hackerhackingcan	hack into facebook Google and internet
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: we build systems - not break them.
hackerhackingcan	please?
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: http://catb.org/~esr/writings/unix-koans/script-kiddie.html
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: if you want to learn how to program, we can help you.
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: but trying to break into computer systems will only get you in trouble.
hackerhackingcan	I can do programming in html
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: HTML is not a programming language.
hackerhackingcan	is that enough for hacking?
vinleod	hackerhackingcan: There's no such things as programming in HTML.
hackerhackingcan	I can also do hacks in cmd
vinleod	Ah, a script kiddie.
hackerhackingcan	what you mean by script kiddie?
hackerhackingcan	OK now I know
hackerhackingcan	you all don't want other people to know about hacking
hackerhackingcan	so you say like this
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Script_kiddie
hackerhackingcan	so you abused me by calling me script kiddie?
hackerhackingcan	When I become a good hacker I will hack you also
vinleod	hackerhackingcan: Good luck with that. bye bye.
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: OK, you have been warned.
hackerhackingcan	why warn?
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: try hacking into the IP address 127.0.0.1
vinleod	hackerhackingcan: I bet you can't log into that computer and delete all of its files.
luke_c	hackerhackingscan: After that, try to DDOS 192.168.1.1
hackerhackingcan	is 127.0.0.1 your ip?
Ethelim	why'd you give him my IP ffs?
Ethelim	don't try it, you wouldn't get in anyway. I have it locked down tightly
vinleod	hackerhackingcan: So, here's the situation. We don't condone illegal activity. We don't suggest that people attempt illegal activity. We don't like people who do illegal activity. We a programmers. We like to write programs. We like to solve interesting problems. We like to solve interesting puzzles.
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: if you haven't noticed, I've become op.
rindolf	hackerhackingcan: and I can /kick you and /kickban you.
vinleod	hackerhackingcan: Now, if you'd like be a good, productive member of society and learn to program, we can help with that, but we won't spoon feed you either.
hackerhackingcan	hahah whose is this ip 192.168.1.1? Your password is admin haha
Ethelim	is he for real?
vinleod	Ethelim: I doubt it.
hackerhackingcan	192.168.1.1 I am changing your password then call me kid
rindolf	Ethelim: he seems like a bad troll.
rindolf	But an amusing one.
jrslepak	rindolf: depends on how many times you've heard the joke in the recent past
Ethelim	dude, you wouldn't get in there. And even if you did all you'd be able to do is reset the guy's connection
hackerhackingcan	I will reset it
* Ethelim	waits for "someone's" closed connection
mst	"Quit: Leaving"
vinleod	I saw that coming a mile away/
JabbaWokiee	lol
mst	not an actual fell-off-the-internet
mst	reasonable exit though
mst	oh, and now he's back with a new nick

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	From HTML to Hacking Google in Ten Easy Steps
Published	2012-02-13

/dev/null is webscale.

Display

oilio	so what the point of hashes, can't we just use void pointers to key/value ?
rindolf	oilio: hashes as in hash tables?
oilio	yes
rindolf	oilio: OK.
rindolf	oilio: they are one way to efficiently implement the dictionary Abstract Data Type (ADT).
rindolf	oilio: a hash table can store more than one key / value pair.
oilio	yeah, I read about it in the wikipedia
rindolf	oilio: and you can lookup a value based on a key efficiently.
arubin	Linear search is good enough for everyone.
oilio	rindolf: what if the whole table won’t fit in the memory?
oilio	RAM
arubin	Swap.
arubin	Amazon S3.
imlearningyacc	well if no ram and no swap no allocation
arubin	We have the whole Internet for our tables.
imlearningyacc	well
diminoten	ask reddit how that worked out
arubin	And remember, /dev/null is web-scale.
imlearningyacc	yea, I store all my data in /dev/null
rindolf	oilio: then you'll need to use a more sophisticated (and slower) data structure that can offload to disk.
arubin	It is really fast.
arubin	I use the Boost libraries for /dev/null too.
arubin	And I use async writes to /dev/null.
rindolf	arubin: heh.
diminoten	don't want to get into resource contention when using /dev/null
* rindolf	uses /dev/null for backups.
diminoten	only so much null to go around

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	/dev/null - the ultra-fast solution for all your storage needs.
Published	2012-03-30

iSomething

Display

jparkton	and ya know. I bet if one distro popped an i in front like iUbunt, iFedora or some jazz about 300 million people would shell out astronomical amounts of money just to have one before anyone else
WinNY	Macs are evil.
impulse9	iCry
jercos	iDerp
jparkton	iFail
jparkton	iStone
impulse9	iQuack
jparkton	iFap
Jeaye	ifap.cum
jparkton	iClean
jparkton	iBarf
jparkton	iReturn
impulse9	iI
rindolf	jparkton: this reminds me of http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-perl-paid-version-of-cpan .
rindolf	iCanHazCheezburger.
rindolf	iSuck.
rindolf	iAmSpartacus.
impulse9	iAmYourFather
jparkton	prolly some new iFag rage
rindolf	iAmLame
impulse9	iBlame

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	iSuckLessThanJ
Published	2012-08-02

Bad Names for Programs

Display

rindolf	marzy: Emacs is not a better vim. They are very different.
rindolf	marzy: I could never get used to Emacs, but have used Vim for many years.
marzy	rindolf Emacs + Evil mode makes a better vim
rindolf	marzy: does it support all Vim extensions?
marzy	no, that's why its better. it doesn't come with a badly-designed scripting language!!
rindolf	marzy: well, it's still not 100% compatible with vim.
rindolf	marzy: and Evil is an awful name. Sorry.
rindolf	"The only thing more evil than XSLT is XSLT edited with Emacs Evil mode." ;-)
marzy	i think it's a good name considering emacs and vi(m) rivalry
rindolf	marzy: of course, I've heard worse - coq and coccinelle.
rindolf	And then there's this guy here who called his programming language Flua which reminds me of Flu and Influenza.
Reactionary	rindolf: lol
dardevelin	rindolf, flua IDE is not that bad to be fair (at least the little i tried )
rindolf	dardevelin: didn't say it was bad - I said the name was bad.
rindolf	dardevelin: and I could never get it running here. Problems with Py3 and PyQt.
dardevelin	rindolf, oh that sucks... :/
rindolf	dardevelin: yes.
dardevelin	rindolf, yeah i know you didn't said it was bad, just as gave you my opinion on it as a side note. sorry i should have made it more explicit :)
rindolf	Of course, Evil is not as bad a name as SLIME, which is another Emacs mode.
dardevelin	rindolf, i had troubles with SLIME once and boy i got tired of fighting with it
rindolf	Reportedly it was also the nickname of an internal Microsoft version control system called SLM (that is now largely discontinued).

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	A rose by any other name
Published	2012-09-05

Selling Open Source Source Code

Display

codescience	just stumbled across another question. is there an open-source license that prevent anyone from making money off my code?
rindolf	codescience: no there isn't.
rindolf	codescience: it stands against the open source definition.
ssta	codescience: that would violate the spirit of what most people understand "open source" to mean
rindolf	codescience: people can sell copies of open source software or services related to it.
codescience	hmmm, i understand
rindolf	codescience: see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
ssta	I can legally sell you this copy of the Linux kernel...I can charge whatever you are willing to pay. Nothing in the license prevents this
rindolf	ssta: will you sell it to me for 5,000 USD?
rindolf	;-)
ssta	rindolf: sure
rindolf	ssta: how about for 3,000 USD?
ssta	rindolf: tell you what, for $10,000 I'll throw in a free copy of FreeBSD
rindolf	ssta: wow, sounds like a good deal.
ssta	rindolf: hmm, 3000 is a bit low, I don't think I could go that cheap
rindolf	ssta: heh.
rindolf	ssta: how much are you selling the source code of Apache 2.4 for?
ssta	rindolf: oh, you can have that for free
rindolf	ssta: really?
rindolf	Sucker!
ssta	rindolf: sure...but the build scripts you have to pay for
rindolf	ssta: OK.
rindolf	ssta: would you be willing to exchange the source of the Linux kernel for three copies of jQuery? I will even throw in a few free Dojo plugins.
rindolf	ssta: he already told us.
ssta	rindolf: hmm, not sure I want jQuery
ssta	rindolf: would you happen to have code for a halfway decent RDBMS? I think I could swap for that
rindolf	ssta: I have the source code for MySQL. Not sure if it's half-decent.
codescience	i run a mysql server. runs good enough for me
ssta	rindolf: I use MySQL in production quite a lot. It has its flaws, but my use cases never seem to hit them
rindolf	ssta: OK.
rindolf	ssta: so will you exchange its source code for the Linux kernel?
ssta	rindolf: sure
rindolf	ssta: sounds good.
rindolf	ssta: you can find the source code of MySQL here - http://www.mysql.com/
ssta	rindolf: you can get the Linux source from kernel.org
rindolf	ssta: thanks.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Premium price for free (in either meaning) software.
Published	2012-09-16

gcc warning flags

Display

doomrobo	rindolf, I got redirected to your gcc important flags page today and I think you may be missing a few things
rindolf	doomrobo: do you mean the one in the talk?
rindolf	doomrobo: which page are you referring to?
doomrobo	rindolf, lemme see
rindolf	http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/W2L/Development/slides/gcc/flags.html - heh, first Google hit for "gcc important flags"
rindolf	At least for me.
doomrobo	yeah
rindolf	doomrobo: OK, I did not originate that page originally.
doomrobo	OK
rindolf	doomrobo: and it served a certain purpose as material for slides to the Haifa Linux Club's Welcome to Linux series.
doomrobo	nice
* jrslepak	always found it funny that -Wall doesn't turn on all of the warnings
jrslepak	. o O ( gcc -Wno-really-I-mean-all ... )
rindolf	-Wevery-warning-under-the-sun-and-then-some
rindolf	-W42
rindolf	-Wchuck-norris
doomrobo	-Wextra
doomrobo	-whipped-cream
jrslepak	and of course -WTF
rindolf	jrslepak: :-)
rindolf	-Worse
rindolf	-Worse-is-better
jrslepak	-Wat
rindolf	-Whoops
doomrobo	-S -Illy -Wabbit
rindolf	Heh.
jrslepak	-Wascally-wabbit
jrslepak	(which really needs to be the name of a future Ubuntu release)
doomrobo	people reading this are probably just shaking their heads
jrslepak	hey, at least it's not -fallow-undecidable-instances ¬_¬

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	gcc -Whatever
Published	2012-09-25

Ultra Compression

Display

tnzr	does anyone happen to know what std::allocator.allocate() does when you try to allocate 0 bytes? I get a pointer back but I can't tell what it's pointing at and I can't seem to find anything on the web that gives a definitive answer
GeDaMo	Why are you allocating zero bytes?
Billiard	tnzr: the same thing it always returns
tnzr	GeDaMo: we are implementing our own allocator for an assignment, and when asked what we should do if the user tries to allocate 0 bytes, the prof said to find out what std::allocator does and mimic that
GeDaMo	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6065814/standard-compliant-custom-allocator
tnzr	oh snap, thanks GeDaMo
GeDaMo	:)
rindolf	GeDaMo: zero bytes are enough to hold the Complete Works of Shakespeare.
GeDaMo	Depends on how many monkeys you have to decompress it :P
rindolf	GeDaMo: heh.
rindolf	Of course, I defined a custom decompressor that emits the complete works of Shakespeare on empty input and uses gzip compression otherwise.
rindolf	It's pretty large though.
Billiard	redeemed: compress the decompressor using the same algo
Billiard	errr rindolf
rindolf	Billiard: OK.
rindolf	Billiard: heh.
Billiard	0 bytes = a decompressor for the entire works of Shakespeare

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Shakespeare, compressed
Published	2012-10-11

Ruby Tuesday

Display

rindolf	Hi all.
vandos	hi
rindolf	Hello Ruby Tuesday.
famously	goodbye ruby tuesday
famously	hello emerald thursdays!
famously	now i have to choose a precious stone for each day of the week, thanks
famously	this is going to take half the night
Textmode	sapphire Sundays
rindolf	Pearl Mondays.
rindolf	Diamond Saturdays.
famously	YES!
famously	diamond saturday definitely
famously	i thought the same thing
famously	i guess there's already a gemstone for every month, so this would be seen as kind of a rip-off
famously	maybe a metal for every day

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Sunny Diamonds
Published	2012-11-18

Mac Server

Display

Zepo	Either our mac server is sending out little electroshocks through his cage and into my foot or he is just vibrating really strange...
rindolf	Zepo: a mac server?
Zepo	rindolf: yeah, we have a Mac server running a VM with an Ubuntu server
rindolf	Zepo: hmm... interesting.
Zepo	rindolf: Most people react like "what the...?!"
rindolf	Zepo: next you'll tell me that you have an HP-UX Desktop.
Zepo	rindolf: I am not that crazy, my chef made this...thing...

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Using the right tool for the job
Published	2012-11-21

Maths Education and Languages

Display

cheeseduck	rindolf: How long have you got on the book?
Jude	rindolf, did you check out the new game of thrones episode?
rindolf	Jude: no, I don't watch Game of Thrones.
rindolf	Jude: I did see this on Slashdot - http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/03/31/1347248/hbo-says-game-of-thrones-piracy-is-a-compliment .
rindolf	Jude: quite encouraging.
Jude	why
rindolf	Jude: what is encouraging?
rindolf	Jude: I mean that some television producers are having a clue about piracy.
rindolf	Jude: I think the MPAA is likely going to follow the lead of the RIAA and endorse the Internet.
rindolf	Jude: well, there's still a long way to go with even music online.
cheeseduck	rindolf: "How to win friends and..."
rindolf	cheeseduck: ah, that. Making slow progress in it.
rindolf	cheeseduck: I thought it was a book I was writing.
rindolf	Lately, I've been writing books and screenplays and stuff more than I've been reading them. :-D
cheeseduck	"I've been reading a lot of scripts lately." "You know, it's cheaper than going to the movies."
rindolf	cheeseduck: heh.
rindolf	cheeseduck: some people find the screenplays funny as they are.
rindolf	cheeseduck: they have good imagination.
cheeseduck	I always found the standard they are supposed to be written in weird.
cheeseduck	Kind of wasteful in space.
rindolf	cheeseduck: for other people, it ruins the experience.
rindolf	cheeseduck: yes, maybe.
Jude	I see rindolf, did you catch the walking dead's finale?
rindolf	cheeseduck: I have something of my own - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/projects/XML-Grammar/Fiction/
rindolf	Jude: not familiar with "Walking Dead".
rindolf	Jude: horror drama - I have a soft stomach.
rindolf	Jude: I prefer humour or drama/humour or sci-fi/humour or sci-fi/humour/drama or stuff like that.
Jude	k, sorry to have bothered you
rindolf	Jude: I watched three episodes of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, and so far - I'm game.
rindolf	Jude: you did not bother me.
Jude	never seen it
rindolf	Jude: do you watch My Little Pony?
rindolf	Jude: ah, I love it so far.
Jude	heard it can get quite rough
Jude	more nudity and violence than Spartacus and game of thrones combined
rindolf	One episode involved a lot of songs, which I disliked.
rindolf	Jude: heh, LOL.
rindolf	Jude++
rindolf	Jude: it's directed at little girls.
rindolf	Jude: so it's a pretty clean show.
Jude	yeah I know
Jude	I was kidding
rindolf	Jude: if you want incest and violence, then look no further than the Jewish bible.
Jude	there are a lot of dubbing sections of the show to go with metal songs or violent scripts etc
Jude	rindolf, I'm jewish
rindolf	Jude: reportedly, it was quite realism then (the Bible I mean).
rindolf	Jude: ah, nice. So am I.
Jude	and I couldn't agree more
Jude	I have to go watch game of thrones
rindolf	Jude: yes, you need to process the Bible a lot to get to the good stuff.
Jude	will talk to you in an hour
rindolf	Jude: enjoy.
Jude	yeah, in Israel we have to take bible classes
Jude	in high school
rindolf	Maybe I'll prepare a fortune out of this conversation.
Jude	and elementary school too
rindolf	Jude: I'm Israeli too.
Jude	really?
rindolf	Jude: I live in Tel Aviv.
Jude	where do you teach
rindolf	Jude: yes.
Jude	me too..
rindolf	Jude: I don't teach.
Jude	don't tell me you live near Rabin sq.
rindolf	Jude: well, I teach stuff via blogging and Internet writing.
rindolf	Jude: no, but I go there often.
rindolf	Jude: I live in Gimmel.
Jude	Ramat Aviv?
rindolf	Jude: yes.
Jude	that's close to TAU
Jude	do you study there?
rindolf	Jude: yes.
Jude	CS?
rindolf	Jude: no, I just live with my parents.
rindolf	Jude: I graduated from EE from the Technion.
Jude	cool
rindolf	Jude: http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/computers/education/opinion-on-the-technion/
Jude	that's your blog?
rindolf	Jude: it's my home site.
Jude	cool
rindolf	Jude: a good old fashioned Web 1.0 site in modern clothing.
rindolf	Like valid HTML, modern CSS, some JS enhancements, etc.
rindolf	But still static HTML pages.
rindolf	I have some blogs on livejournal.com/etc.
Jude	do you know a guy called Nimrod?
rindolf	Jude: there are many people called Nimrod - it's a common name.
Jude	don't want to give him in on public chat
rindolf	Jude: not sure I know a Nimrod off hand.
Jude	never mind then
rindolf	Jude: OK, feel free to PM.
rindolf	Jude: many Israeli names can get confusing.
rindolf	OK.
rindolf	Jude: I can easily come to Rabin sq. - there's a bus there from here.
Jude	he's my brother, he lives close to you and he's also an open-source enthusiast
Jude	I know
Jude	there are plenty of them
rindolf	Jude: ah, that's great.
Jude	I take them to uni on a daily basis
Jude	I live right by Rabin sq.
rindolf	Jude: so you study in TAU?
Jude	yeah
rindolf	Jude: TAU has tons of hot chicks.
Jude	there are some
rindolf	Jude: there aren't a lot of people on the streets of Gimmel.
rindolf	Jude: so you study CS?
Jude	no way
Jude	maths
rindolf	Jude: ah, I see.
rindolf	Jude: maths...
Jude	I know one or two nice looking girls, but I usually get put off by their personalities
rindolf	Jude: I think maths is taught wrong in several aspects.
rindolf	Jude: ah.
Jude	I've only been attracted to one specimen of the female sex ever
Jude	in my entire life
rindolf	Jude: ah, really?
Jude	I dunno, I agree when you speak of high school maths
Jude	I like university maths so far
Jude	my professors are really nice
rindolf	Jude: well, there are a lot of girls studying more humane stuff.
rindolf	Jude: http://blogs.perl.org/users/shlomi_fish/2013/03/ann-my-transition-from-software-developer-to-writerentertaineramateur-philosopherinternet-celebrity.html
Jude	I generally don't like people who study humane subjects (I don't consider philosophy to be as such though)
rindolf	Jude: I've made a transition from a mathematician to a software developer and now I'm more of a writer/entertainer/amateur-philosopher.
Jude	you didn't like the way it was taught?
rindolf	Jude: like which way?
rindolf	Jude: you mean maths?
Jude	yes
rindolf	Jude: well: 1. No pairwise work. Big mistake.
rindolf	2. Need to memorise a lot of silly stuff. Why??
rindolf	3. Maybe allow some sloppiness. Make maths more humane.
Jude	that's why you got philosophy
Jude	maths can't afford to be sloppy
rindolf	There's something poetical about many maths' proofs.
Jude	the intuitive ideas behind them
Jude	are beautiful
Jude	but intuition can be misleading
Jude	that's why you have to be really strict
rindolf	Jude: yes, that's why I think we should now move into proof verifier realm.
Jude	if you want your proof to be valid
rindolf	Jude: right.
rindolf	Jude: but I was once criticised for this - http://ladypine.livejournal.com/24574.html
rindolf	Jude: thing is - not everything should be strict when teaching.
rindolf	Jude: I agree that mathematical intuition can be misleading, but it's still a good thing to have.
rindolf	Jude: thing is I think many mathematicians now require a lot of dedication and selling their soul to the devil, which is turning them into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Nemo -s.
Jude	it's not a very formal proof
rindolf	Jude: when I studied EE most of my courses were with open material, and I could do pairwise work, which I enjoyed.
Jude	but seems to hold
rindolf	Jude: yes.
Jude	I guess you are right
rindolf	Jude: :-D
Jude	that the concept is more important than the formalization
Jude	but a lot of my professors agree with you
Jude	and would give much more attention to grasping the important concept, and understanding intuition behind proofs
rindolf	Jude: I'm always right. Unless I claim that "A is not-A". But Chuck Norris would be right even then.
Jude	lol
rindolf	Hah! A new Chuck Norris factoid.
Jude	<3
Jude	it's been nice chatting with you, I really have to go now, I need to watch GoT and then go to bed and wake up in 4 hours
rindolf	Jude: my father and I now have an ongoing Chuck Norris meme.
rindolf	Jude: bye, have fun, and good night.
Jude	rindolf, what's that
rindolf	Jude: what?
Jude	the Chuck Norris meme
rindolf	Jude: well, we say stuff like "you're my most Chuck Norris dad." or "I taught Chuck Norris how to fight."
rindolf	It's a personal running joke.
rindolf	Well, a family-wide one.
rindolf	We have our own jargon.
Jude	heh
rindolf	Most families do.
Jude	I'm not close enough to any member of my family
Jude	to do that
rindolf	Ah.
Jude	talk to you later, ciao
rindolf	Bye.
Nisstyre-laptop	rindolf: Douglas Hofstadter gave a talk about how mathematicians aren't as rigorous as they claim to be
Nisstyre-laptop	and that they use a lot of analogical thinking
rindolf	Nisstyre-laptop: ah, OK.
Nisstyre-laptop	it was at the university of Toronto
Nisstyre-laptop	I missed it sadly though
rindolf	Nisstyre-laptop: ah.
rindolf	Nisstyre-laptop: was it filmed?
Nisstyre-laptop	but I can basically tell you what he said more or less
Nisstyre-laptop	rindolf: there was a webcast
rindolf	Nisstyre-laptop: OK.
rindolf	Nisstyre-laptop: ah.
Nisstyre-laptop	not sure if it can be accessed still
rindolf	Nisstyre-laptop: ah.
Nisstyre-laptop	<+Nisstyre-laptop> but if you read either GEB or I Am a Strange Loop you'll get it
rindolf	Nisstyre-laptop: I read GEB.
rindolf	Nisstyre-laptop: GEB was a nice book, but I knew a lot of what he was saying there.
rindolf	Nisstyre-laptop: I still enjoyed the drama stuff in the middle with Achilles, the Tortoise and their friends.
Nisstyre-laptop	rindolf: you had the idea of using PM as a metaphor for systems of thinking and the mind?
Nisstyre-laptop	because that's what the book is about
rindolf	Nisstyre-laptop: PM?
Nisstyre-laptop	Principia Mathematica
Nisstyre-laptop	the formal system constructed by Russell and Whitehead
rindolf	Nisstyre-laptop: I didn't think of it.
rindolf	Nisstyre-laptop: yes, I know.
Nisstyre-laptop	the entire book is his theory of consciousness
Nisstyre-laptop	and how there are levels of thinking
rindolf	Nisstyre-laptop: well, I read "I think, therefore I laugh" before I read GEB.
Nisstyre-laptop	you can be less of a thinking being, etc...
rindolf	Yes, he says that consciousness requires thinking in loops, or self-reflection.
rindolf	Well, it's an informal theory of consciousness.
Nisstyre-laptop	it requires what he calls a strange loop
Nisstyre-laptop	and there can be many levels to it
Nisstyre-laptop	more levels == what we think of as more human or more conscious beings
Nisstyre-laptop	so PM actually is able to self reflect to an extent
Nisstyre-laptop	although it requires a human to interpret it
rindolf	I believe, that creating artificial intelligence/artificial consciousness won't be easy to do, will require a lot of complex code, and will likely be faulty (have its own will, make mistakes, not run as quickly as more specialised code, etc.).
rindolf	Nisstyre-laptop: yes.
Nisstyre-laptop	depends what you mean by AI
Nisstyre-laptop	there are several different definitions
gde33	the first human like robot will be build in Japan, the first artificial intelligence in the US
doomlord	heh
gde33	hahaha
Nisstyre-laptop	the church-turing hypothesis would seem to imply it's possible, at least in principle
Nisstyre-laptop	to create "strong" AI
Nisstyre-laptop	although I intensely dislike that term
Nisstyre-laptop	since it tries to say that any system of thinking that doesn't work exactly the same as a human one isn't AI
Nisstyre-laptop	which is BS
gde33	you guys are all worried about intelligence, I think that will be the easy part. Then comes the important stuff: giving it a sense of humor.
doomlord	so there was the idea that consciousness is associated with information flow, and that "more" information flow is "More" consciousness, a continuum like gravity... but gravity can produce a qualitatively different effect past a certain level (black holes..)
doomlord	so the "loop" is where information flow becomes qualitatively different ?
Nisstyre-laptop	doomlord: have you read GEB?
Nisstyre-laptop	it would be the ability a system has to observe itself, and encode the system itself in the system
Nisstyre-laptop	in other words self reflection
gde33	I don't know many people who can be truly accused of having their own thoughts
doomlord	i don't think so but i have some related quotes from somewhere
doomlord	but can a system only approximate itself
Nisstyre-laptop	Principia Mathematica has that ability
doomlord	can a computer emulate itself...
Nisstyre-laptop	as Gödel showed
Nisstyre-laptop	you can encode formulas in PM as formulas in PM
Nisstyre-laptop	doomlord: yes
doomlord	but to what practical extent
Nisstyre-laptop	what is that supposed to mean?
doomlord	nature has many 'feedback loops' involving information
Nisstyre-laptop	physical limitations result in a hard limit of feedback loops
doomlord	what's GEB, links?
Nisstyre-laptop	if you point a camera at a mirror eventually it will "stop"
Nisstyre-laptop	doomlord: it's a book
Nisstyre-laptop	Gödel, Escher, Bach
doomlord	ah Google reveals
Nisstyre-laptop	but the sequel is more clear on what it's about
Nisstyre-laptop	I Am A Strange Loop
doomlord	OK sounds interesting
Nisstyre-laptop	doomlord: anyway, if you nest implementations of a computer in a computer eventually there will be a limit imposed by the physical situation
Nisstyre-laptop	i.e. the memory and processor speed
gde33	only for limited thinkers
gde33	it's like entropy, only for people who are afraid to think :P
doomlord	but don't physical systems also have practical limitations
gde33	yes but those are not what we imagine them to be
gde33	if only we knew the meaning of life, that would make things so much easier
Stryyker	how?
rindolf	I think the whole "AIs spawning AIs" dream is not a good strategy for doing software dev. I think programming is here to stay. It's not like humans can efficiently do what a dedicated polynomial time program can.
doomlord	even humans get programmed, lol
rindolf	doomlord: yes.
gde33	that new immortality project had some interesting videos
rindolf	doomlord: a large part of human technology is mental.
rindolf	doomlord: in fact, we can no longer survive without our mental technology. We couldn't for thousands of years.
gde33	oh but we can
gde33	just need a favorable environment
doomlord	cultural template = human OS
gde33	not mine
rindolf	gde33: you can survive without your mental technology? Even without conceptual thought?
gde33	not sure what you mean
gde33	isn't that what all the other species do?
doomlord	i saw some TED talk trying to explain the difference between Chinese and western spending/saving habits in the way the language encourages people to think about time
doomlord	supposedly Chinese language makes it harder to think of past, present, future separately
gde33	languages can be really weird
gde33	all languages have the word "argument" but some want it to have additional meanings, I believe in China an argument is equal to disobedience. lol
Belxjander	huh?
gde33	in English it is a kind of fight
gde33	争 is a dispute 争论 is an argument or debate
gde33	I cant think of good examples, I used to know a girl who knew many languages
gde33	she showed me how some things are badly broken in some languages
doomlord	is it true Japanese can't say "no", they have to repeat the question in negative..
doomlord	that is what we were told when learning but they must have a word for no surely
Belxjander	doomlord: there is "Hai" for Yes and "iie" for no
doomlord	so its just impolite to say "no" i guess
* Belxjander	is living in Japan
Belxjander	doomlord: you lose context...
Belxjander	doomlord: in English you don't repeat
gde33	hah no
Belxjander	but in Japanese you do
Belxjander	gde33: depends on the person... my mother and father thought nothing of explaining politeness to me and will happily talk overtop me when I am speaking
rindolf	gde33: I only know (Modern) Hebrew, English, some mostly forgotten Written Arabic, and some French (which I'm now trying to regain).
Belxjander	I have also run into the same from Chinese, Japanese, American, European AND African people I have met
rindolf	gde33: well, I also know bits of other languages like Spanish, Russian, German, etc.
rindolf	gde33: I know that in Hebrew we have compulsive genders for objects, so we don't care about phrasing sentences in a gender-neutral form, which is an English obsession.
rindolf	gde33: I think it is parodied in this book - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinny_Legs_and_All_%28novel%29 (great one, BTW - taught me a lot).
doomlord	heh languages with sexism built in.. gender all the way through
gde33	some languages are also more emotional than others
gde33	Italians are hilarious
gde33	so much enthusiasm it makes you think something is going on
Belxjander	gde33: spoken or written and the correct manner for if you are addressing "up/peer/down" the social ladder with regards respect... yes
gde33	Belxjander: does that apply to many words?

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2013-04-01

“I need an Open Source Something…”

Display

user2013	I need open source remote desktop in j2me
rindolf	user2013: hi.
rindolf	user2013: you again?
user2013	I need open source remote desktop in j2me
user2013	I need open source remote desktop in j2me
rindolf	user2013: we heard you.
atamagawarui	user2013: I need an open-source, free rocket launcher in either VBScript or Batch!
sksupp	can do
rindolf	atamagawarui: heh.
rindolf	atamagawarui: I prefer it in AutoCad's AutoLisp.
sksupp	VBScript 3+ years experience, team can perform your task quickly, for 300 dollars PayPal
rindolf	atamagawarui: or in PDP-10 Assembly.
atamagawarui	rindolf: haha
sksupp	i guarantee if you put that on freelancer
sksupp	offers will come
atamagawarui	sksupp: lol, to whom are you going to outsource the task?
sksupp	i know
sksupp	i'll assign it as a project for this Java class i TA

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	No problem there…
Published	2013-05-24

Solving the Halting Problem

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inf-groupoid	o0elise0o: mv seems pretty clear to me
o0elise0o	i cant think of anything Linux doesn't have aside from stability with a GUI
inf-groupoid	o0elise0o: There are lots of obscure commands, but mv is not one of them.
o0elise0o	no i mean mv makes sense
rindolf	o0elise0o: Linux cannot solve the halting problem.
rindolf	o0elise0o: but neither can Windows.
o0elise0o	but have no cls with every other command shortened seems odd to me
Oxyd	Linux can solve the halting problem: kill -9 "$pid" && echo "Halts"

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Cutting the Gordian Knot
Published	2013-08-03

What to do about Becoming Enraged By Java

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swineflu	is there away i can basically do if (input.equals("1" \|\| "2" \|\| "3")) {
rindolf	swineflu: if (input.equals("1") \|\| input.equals("2").
rindolf	swineflu: Perl 6 has junctions for this.
Znoosey	swineflu: in which language?
swineflu	in Java
swineflu	also that's uglyyyyyy
Znoosey	then rindolf's way is the way to do it
limbo_	swineflu: case from Java 7 on, before that just use ifs
Znoosey	rindolf: is perl 6 out of beta yet?
rindolf	Znoosey: well, they released Rakudo Star, but it's not very usable.
Znoosey	ah
Znoosey	rindolf: do you know when it will be done?
rindolf	Znoosey: I wouldn't recommend people to use Perl 6, but its junctions are still a cool feature and there's a Perl 5 implementation at https://metacpan.org/module/Perl6::Junction .
swineflu	Java enrages me
Rounin	You should stop implementing the Enrageable interface, swineflu
Rounin	A common rookie mistake
swineflu	Enrageable interface = swing
Rounin	Instead you need a HarmoniousAndConstructiveReactionAccessorFactoryDAOInjector Object
Rounin	You get it by incentivizing an EJB SproinkJunk
Rounin	In your supplication gridwork of choice

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Programmer Programming Programmer
Published	2013-08-03

Misbehaving Printers

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cousteau	damn printer... it's made like 4 fubared copies
cousteau	jamming all the time, having to remove an accordion-shaped paper each time
cousteau	turns out there was another sheet jammed, but it was hidden and the printer wasn't detecting it
pulse	i wonder if printers will still jam paper in the year 3000
pulse	maybe it's a paradox of physics
pulse	a fluke in nature
`Gin	I think its more down to the fact printer companies have been milking their cash cow dry, £10 in R&D each year. etc.
pulse	maybe some day paper will become obsolete, then there will be no problem any more
`Gin	There are still employees at my job who would prefer to print an email out, read it and then reply to the email.
`Gin	I don't have much hope for that dream pulse :P
pulse	that's just stupid :P
cousteau	pulse, how in the hell would printers work BETTER in the future?
cousteau	the more intelligent they become, the more stupid things they'll do!
cousteau	the machine rebellion will start with printers, it's a known fact
koollman	I suppose the equivalent of paper jam with a 3d printer can get really messy
cousteau	heh
koollman	"we cannot access the printer, it is inside a large blob of solidified plastic"
koollman	"the first maintenance team went in, but that was 2 days ago, and we are preparing a rescue mission"
pulse	maybe they could produce the paper in the process
pulse	maybe they'll print you a hologram
pulse	lol
cousteau	koollman, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo
koollman	cousteau: yes, but that one would auto-reproduce, which is much more scary ;)
koollman	although I guess a very advanced printer could print itself, it's the goal of reprap-like systems
pulse	nothing a giant EMP wave wouldn't fix
rindolf	koollman: heh.
cousteau	maybe the 3D printer accidentally gets programmed with printing a 3D copy of itself, and that copy turns out to be already programmed with the same program
pulse	haha
cousteau	3D printer fork bomb!
koollman	:)
rindolf	Heh.
keepsake	Ah, replicators.
* koollman	remembers actually using a postscript 'bomb'
cousteau	...as an unrelated note, the :(){... forkbomb doesn't work on the `dash` interpreter
cousteau	it says that : is not a valid function name
cousteau	so you can fool your friends by trying to convince them that the forkbomb doesn't work
koollman	cousteau: that's not to hard to modify, although the result will be less obscure. or is it that it doesn't support recursion ?
cousteau	koollman, replace : with F and you have a working one
koollman	OK, so just the character is forbidden as a name. a bit sad
cousteau	or with _
koollman	_ works, it's still quite hard to read :)
cousteau	with _, if you tilt your head, it looks like a toilet on top of a tree
pulse	that's some vivid imagination
wei2912	lol
cousteau	or a chair or something
koollman	pulse: shell programming may have unexpected side-effects ;)
pulse	like waking up in a mental asylum
pulse	? :)
koollman	nah. But I do remember making very bad jokes about zombie processes, reapers and clones
pulse	hmm
koollman	I woke up as a sysadmin, too. that may partially qualify
pulse	lol

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	I blame Gutenberg
Published	2013-08-08

What ##programming is all about?

Display

christos_	hey
rindolf	christos_: hi.
Znoosey	hello
christos_	we have topic here?
rindolf	christos_: /topic
kimochiwarui	christos_: Ummm... programming? :-O
rindolf	christos_: anyway, we discuss programming and other stuff.
Znoosey	christos_: the general topic seems to be type safety
Znoosey	>_<
rindolf	Znoosey: and Java questions.
rindolf	Help with Java homework.
Znoosey	rindolf: ah yes
rindolf	From people who cannot indent correctly.
Znoosey	rindolf: hahaha
rindolf	Znoosey: :-)
Znoosey	rindolf: the most amusing was the other day, when some guy posted his code on one line in here, so i asked him to pastebin it, and he did... still all in one line
rindolf	Znoosey: heh.
rindolf	Znoosey: Java golf!

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2013-08-08

How well do Humans Execute Loops?

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rindolf	ashmew2: hi.
ashmew2	hello rindolf .
rindolf	ashmew2: what's up?
ashmew2	Sorry about the other day, my internet was acting weird. seems stable now
rindolf	ashmew2: ah, that's OK. :-)
ashmew2	rindolf, just fixed issues that cropped up with a new router. Fixes the internet :D
RangerMauve	I'll never forgive you
ashmew2	what's up with you?
ashmew2	RangerMauve, while(!forgiven) ask_forgiveness(); :P
rindolf	ashmew2: I'm fine. Looking for a misplaced E-mail.
rindolf	ashmew2: infinite loop!
ashmew2	Let's hope that's not an infinite loop.
ashmew2	:P
rindolf	ashmew2: run it in a background process/thread.
ashmew2	hahaha
rindolf	ashmew2: :-)
ashmew2	not necessarily infinite, we don't know how the variable forgiven is modified by the called function :P :P
rindolf	ashmew2: well, this is pseudocode.
RangerMauve	ashmew2: It could be potentially infinite if I die
ashmew2	RangerMauve, don't let the requests be pending then :D
ashmew2	for the sake of infinite rise in universal entropy.
RangerMauve	Maybe I want it to happen. Manye I'm some sort of existential anarchist
ashmew2	well, Anarchy, no matter how inviting, doesn't really lead to fruitful consequences. But i guess that's individualistic at best.
RangerMauve	2deep4me

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2013-09-21

FizzBees

Display

rindolf	Oh, God, FizzBuzz discussion.
Rounin	rindolf: Which framework do you think is best for FizzBuzz? I'm thinking Spring, Hibernate and Struts, with jQuery for the user-facing parts, of course
Rounin	To properly print the lines, you see
Rounin	Also FizzBuzz in C# is hopelessly out of date
* Rounin	ducks and grabs popcorn
adsc	fizzbuzz can be a challenging exercise if you require an exotic language like Chef
adsc	you know what would be cool? A language that has an implementation for all such trivial programming exercises in the standard lib. Just imagine how confused a noob programmer would be when he couldn't just fizzBuzz() in standard C to solve the exercise...
Rounin	:P
Rounin	atoi is a nice exercise though
moop	adsc: write one, become the hero that beginners need
moop	call it nooblib
moop	become famous

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	FizzBees
Published	2013-12-12

Crypto Time Exchange

Display

rindolf	Today I got the idea for "crypto-time" similar to crypto-currency - BitSeconds.
rindolf	Not sure how it will work.
Paper	What would the benefit of having lots of BitSeconds be?
pyon	rindolf: Ah.
rdevilla	rindolf: you are enabling pedophiles, terrorists, and drug dealers
pyon	rdevilla: wat
rindolf	rdevilla: heh.
sirdancealot	and time thieves
rdevilla	especially time thieves
rdevilla	think of all the time laundering
rindolf	Reminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momo_%28novel%29
pyon	rdevilla: Time thieves? You mean like those silly Facebook games that steal your time?
rdevilla	pyon: the Steam sale has taken up far too much of my holiday already ._.
pyon	rdevilla: Heh. :-)

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Be back in a BitSecond…
Published	2013-12-25

Fine Literature (about svn.php.net)

Display

olamachon	Yay! svn.php.net is back up.
rindolf	olamachon: <olamachon> Yay! svn.php.net is back up.
rindolf	<doomlord__> xeno_ actually seeing rust on ==> that's great.
olamachon	rindolf: ?
rindolf	olamachon: sorry, I meant that it's great that svn.php.net is up.
olamachon	rindolf: haha ya. Pretty exciting, might write a short novella about it.
rindolf	olamachon: heh.
olamachon	The Svniliion: The trials and tribulations of a programmers journey to get information about PHP
rindolf	“The day when svn.php.net returned.” -- by olamachon
rindolf	olamachon: heh.
olamachon	rindolf: Ah that's it. So much better.
olamachon	rindolf: Hopefully I'll get like a 10 sec clip in some svn documentary on the history channel
XMPPwocky	rindolf: you know that the people working on svn.php had to have an offline backup
rindolf	olamachon: I like your title too.
olamachon	rindolf: "And it went down, and that is how I knew it was the beginning of the end"
rindolf	olamachon: heh.
XMPPwocky	rindolf: because otherwise nobody could remember which way the arguments go for anything
rindolf	olamachon: “I sulked in my suffering. It was the kind of suffering that tore your heart to shreds. A programmer’s suffering. Nothing could equal it.”
olamachon	XMPPwocky: ya I was thinking about asking my fellow ner... connoisseurs.... if they might have a backup
olamachon	rindolf: "a lonely life full of 1's and 0's"
rindolf	olamachon: heh.
olamachon	rindolf: I smell the beginning of an organically grown IRC novel
rindolf	olamachon: this would definitely make a best-seller.
rindolf	olamachon: heh.
rindolf	olamachon: maybe I'll prepare a convo log out of it - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/sharp-programming.html
olamachon	hahahah
rindolf	olamachon: “I remembered the happy days when I was using the svn server back when it was at its prime. Running. Functioning. These days seem so distant now.”
rindolf	LOL.
olamachon	rindolf: "Soon I realized we were at a turning point in a cultural revolution"
rindolf	olamachon: hmm... you can do "better" than that.
rindolf	olamachon: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/stories/ - I actually wrote some novellas and screenplays-of-sorts here.
olamachon	rindolf: right right, novellas. I was thinking more like I was the glue guy in a documentary
olamachon	rindolf: So I was trying to be super cliché
rindolf	olamachon: ah.
rindolf	olamachon: so was I.
olamachon	rindolf: I like the ironic cliché where it actually means nothing
olamachon	rindolf: its just all good sounding filler
rindolf	“I looked at the clock on my desktop. Each seconds seemed like a century. What will I do without the svn server online? What can I do? What can I do about it? Who am I asking all these questions?”
rindolf	olamachon: I wonder where I first read clichés such as that. Maybe it was someone parodying them.
olamachon	rindolf: "Then I had an existential epiphany. What is SVN? What am I? What are we doing in this universe? This foray into the metaphysical was cut short by a brief glance at the clock. It's 5 o'clock. fk this st, I'm getting drunk."
rindolf	olamachon: heh.
rindolf	olamachon: do you actually write?
olamachon	rindolf: never
rindolf	olamachon: ah, I see.
olamachon	rindolf: is it that obvious? haha
rindolf	olamachon: you may be a natural.
olamachon	rindolf: I wrote like an essay or two in university, they were like 2 pages haha
rindolf	olamachon: ah, so little?
olamachon	rindolf: I read a copious amount of literature
rindolf	olamachon: ah, OK.
rindolf	olamachon: OK, I'll keep this conversation.
olamachon	rindolf: Perhaps that has a prolific effect on my penchant for the perverse verbosity?
rindolf	olamachon: and put it on that page.
rindolf	olamachon: yes, maybe.
olamachon	rindolf: Sure. I feel like we may be getting a bit off-topic here
rindolf	olamachon: yes, well, svn.php.net is back - that's what important.
rindolf	Seize the svn.
rindolf	Carpe svn!
olamachon	rindolf: Nice. I see what you did there. I am literally doing that as fast as I can
rindolf	Well, not sure the Latin is right.
olamachon	carpe is the seize part
rindolf	"Occupy svn.php.net!"
olamachon	diem is day
rindolf	olamachon: yes, I know.
rindolf	But maybe svn has to be conjugated.
olamachon	oh was carpe diem an idiom?
olamachon	carpe svnus?
rindolf	Carpe svni?
olamachon	^
rindolf	Carpe svna?
rindolf	Carpe svnis?
rindolf	Not sure.
rindolf	My Latin is weak.
rindolf	I know the plural of Pentium is Pentia.
pyon	olamachon: "Carpe diem" means something like "live/enjoy this day"
olamachon	pyon: Seize the day
pyon	Yeah.
rindolf	Well, carpe meant quite a few things.
rindolf	In Latin at least.
olamachon	This is unbelievably slow. On a 1gbps connection, PHP docs have been downloading for 15 minutes so far
rindolf	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpe_diem
rindolf	olamachon: I see.
olamachon	I'm trying to grab it all incase I need it later, but with my luck it will drop out again before the 1 file I need

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	We’re not novelists, we just play ones on IRC
Published	2014-03-10

What’s in a name?

Display

Rad-	gcc `xml2-config --cflags` -g lib.c -o lib `xml2-config --libs`
rindolf	Rad-: you called your executable "lib"? It's a common name for directories.
Rad-	...yes
Rad-	i'll change it later i just got lazy
rindolf	Rad-: ah.
rindolf	Rad-: 1. Are you using version control? 2. Do you have automated tests?
Binary_Digit	This is the hardest part of programming - choosing a name for the dev directory.
Rad-	no, no?
rindolf	Rad-: well, you should on both accounts.
pulse	Binary_Digit++
pulse	i hate that part
Denommus	Binary_Digit: uh, src?
indigo	Binary_Digit: projects
pulse	i thought he meant the project name folder
Binary_Digit	src is fine if you're only ever going to write one program
Denommus	ah, for the directory where the projects will be!
Denommus	I always name it "Projects"
Binary_Digit	all your programs are called 'Projects'?
they	Shouldn't you use a top-level qualifier?
Binary_Digit	Cool.
pulse	lol
Denommus	Binary_Digit: no, the directory where the projects are
they	For instance, if you're making a library called "Jail", have the top-level folder named "Jail"? So the namespaces below would be "Jail.Whatever"?
Denommus	Binary_Digit: I always think about some name when starting a project
Rad-	rindolf: well I'm writing the tests. my program is a proof of working functions... well it's supposed to be anyway
Denommus	they: yup
Binary_Digit	Q: How do I do <foo>? A: easy, just use Projects to do the first bit, then switch to Projects to do the next bit, and pipe the output through Projects
* jrslepak	just names a project's directory based on the name of the project
Binary_Digit	jrslepak, so you still have the same problem
pulse	i find it hard to come up with project names that don't suck
Binary_Digit	Denommus solves it by calling every project 'Projects'
jrslepak	Binary_Digit: what problem do I have?
Binary_Digit	But I prefer to find more original names
pulse	I'm afraid I'm going to pick some well-known name, then i'll get sued and will have to walk around in a barrel
Binary_Digit	jrslepak, the problem of picking a name for your project
Denommus	Binary_Digit: stop putting words on my mouth, I hate it
benzrf	Binary_Digit: one of the two hard things in programming
Binary_Digit	Denommus, oh, I think you'll survive.
Binary_Digit	Especially if that graph is anything to go by.
Binary_Digit	But all right, I apologise.
pulse	benzrf, the other being actually getting to work?
Binary_Digit	Ah, bring back florin5
Binary_Digit	I have a project for him
Binary_Digit	A project name generator!
Binary_Digit	Only problem is: what to call it?
pulse	project name namer
rindolf	Rad-: they do? Why?
rindolf	Binary_Digit: heh, it should be self-hosting.
benzrf	pulse: 'two hard things in programming
benzrf	cache invalidation and naming things'
pulse	hmm
benzrf	or maybe it was 'in compsci'
rindolf	benzrf: '...and off by one errors'.
benzrf	well known quote though
benzrf	rindolf: huehuehue
benzrf	i saw that one
pulse	yeah, those are tricky
benzrf	Christ i hate fencepost errors
benzrf	they get me every time -.-
rindolf	benzrf: I had a lot of them in a recent Project Euler problem.
Binary_Digit	I think I shall call my latest project Bernard. Or possibly Saskatchewan.
pulse	Binary_Digit, i find you could develop all sorts of names from fruit names
rindolf	Rad-: well, you can use them for your own personal use.
pulse	have a timer project? call it pineapple timer
benzrf	rindolf: :(
pulse	makes it sound fresh
pulse	and exciting
Binary_Digit	Oh yeah - Apple - or Blackberry - or Raspberry - or Apricot
Binary_Digit	I don't suppose any of those are taken
pulse	tomatomation
pulse	:D
pulse	stands for tomato automation
Binary_Digit	I suppose the only way out is to pick a good name first, and then decide what would be the best program to fit that name. E.g: Project Turnip could be a Turing machine for kids
benzrf	Binary_Digit: amazing
Binary_Digit	yeah, I know - I think I'm too tired for IRC right now, talking nonsense

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Software naming discussions good jokes maketh
Published	2014-03-18

Two men sharing frustrations with their hair.

Display

NBP	FFS
NBP	my hair never looks good
NBP	it's getting ridiculous
NBP	fuck this hair
rindolf	NBP: my hair is a disaster area too.
rindolf	NBP: it grows in all directions and grows quickly, and it's always out of shape.
rindolf	When I brush it it looks weirder.
rindolf	NBP: heh, two guys discussing hair.
NBP	mine doesn't grow in some parts any more
NBP	but where it does grow it looks terrible
rindolf	NBP: ah.
rindolf	NBP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8cDbj8mLKg - Ape of Death has hair problems too.
rindolf	NBP: that's my favourite part out of The Mighty Boosh.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Having a bad hair life
Published	2014-07-22

Trolling konverse the Troll

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rindolf	Macuser: I Went to an anime/manga con - https://twitter.com/shlomif/status/492341211827404800
NextFunctor	roflcon
rindolf	gde33: you can use AdBlockPlus.
gde33	that doesn't work, with a central server they have to pay a lot for hosting
konverse	This guy is hilarious. rindolf!
gde33	I have to watch advertisements to make the centralized control work
gde33	because it doesn't
gde33	yeah this "service"
rindolf	konverse: who is?
gde33	meanwhile the tubes are so fast that the high-definition torrent is finished before I can tab to the client
gde33	uhhuhuhu??
gde33	oh I said torrent shrug
rindolf	Macuser: BTW, do you know iJustine on YouTube/etc.? She's awesome.
gde33	you are assuming I'm not uploading
rindolf	There are other business models for Web revenue - https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/MRLntf3xu5Y
gde33	ahh the greed based garbage interwebs
konverse	What else rindolf?
rindolf	gde33: greed?
rindolf	konverse: what?
rindolf	konverse: I don't understand you.
konverse	Am I trolling you? Sorry if I interrupted.
jrslepak	just because you do things for strangers for free doesn't mean other strangers aren't doing things for you for free
rindolf	konverse: please be more coherent.
gde33	konverse: not at all
gde33	you could just, you know, work for your money?
rindolf	konverse: vague person is vague.
konverse	Heh. We're marking tertiaries. I'm glad.
rindolf	<perlbot> rindolf: vague question is really, really vague, in fact it's so fucking vague that you can't even caption a cat with it because the cat would DIE OF VAGUE
konverse	rindolf: So as is robust to robots?
rindolf	konverse: find some place else to troll.
konverse	Hah! Got you.
konverse	Where have my poor fingers gone?
konverse	Somewhere in the sewers! Bwahahahaha.
rindolf	konverse: I hope they get caught there and you'll have to live with the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles who will kick the ass out of you.
konverse	OOooh.
rindolf	konverse: them and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megan_Fox .
konverse	Touchy. Did you have to man that?
NextFunctor	Access violated @ that insult
rindolf	konverse: man?
konverse	Yah mon.
rindolf	konverse: yeh money!
konverse	Well, there ya go.
konverse	Humanity at its' finest.
rindolf	konverse: money talks, bullshit walks, and GNU awks!
NextFunctor	yeh boi, freeze! how low can you go? - Public Enemy ft. Anthrax
konverse	Well deserved credit, mon.
NextFunctor	I'm curious Konverse
NextFunctor	Are you even a programmer?
rindolf	konverse: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/humanity/ - «Humanity - The Movie»
gde33	konverse: what basic do you write in?
konverse	I do know the basics of some langs. Compared to this wumpus, I have more experience than even what kind of taste his art is.
rindolf	gde33: he writes in basic trolling English.
konverse	There goes more credit. +1.
konverse	Bitcoin talker.
rindolf	konverse: I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy! I'm not worth!
* rindolf	erects a giant status of konverse and worships it.
rindolf	Your holiness!
rindolf	Your godliness!
* wei2912	bows in front of the statue
rindolf	Your ChuckNorrisness!
wei2912	wait, status*
rindolf	wei2912: also kiss its feet.
wei2912	your status glorifies us!
gde33	the only interpreter should be hardware design language, then we should go back to the cartridge system
wei2912	glorious leader
wei2912	we will follow you for the rest of your life!
wei2912	your status shall be in our hearts!
rindolf	wei2912: yes.
rindolf	wei2912: heh.
konverse	It's not over rindolf. Soon, there'll be butterflies. Then there'll be birds and cats wraunching at each other.
rindolf	http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Summer-Glau/ - Summer Glau > Chuck Norris.
wei2912	(next day: Status changed to: "these idiots engraved my status, now it won't automatically update"
konverse	I'm pretty sure. You have something planned?
rindolf	konverse: your SummerGlau-ness!
gde33	rindolf: do you make a lot of money with your website?
rindolf	konverse: nothing is over until either or both of us are dead! D. E. D. Dead!
rindolf	gde33: not a lot yet.
konverse	Yes. Wanna race? I'll play tag first. You're it.
* rindolf	eats the tag.
rindolf	Om nom nom nom. Delicious.
rindolf	Here's a tag for you - <br class="foo" />
rindolf	It's an XHTML tag.
konverse	That's rhetorical rindolf. You should have type casted.
gde33	rindolf: oh that will be sure to make things easy!
konverse	Why the long face??? :<
rindolf	http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Muppets-Show-TNI/Harry-Potter.html - Cookie Monster as Dumbledore 2.
konverse	Ah. Just a frame. A portrait. We're there any fleas?
konverse	rindolf: You're pathetic.
konverse	Period.
rindolf	konverse: I am pathetic.
wei2912	humans are pathetic
rindolf	konverse: I perfected patheticness to an art-form.
konverse	I won't go for stats, 'cause I can already tell by just a lift of a knob, I can twist things around.
rindolf	konverse: my patheticness is unmatched even by Chuck Norris' patheticness.
rindolf	ZadYree: ewwwww!
rindolf	ZadYree: what's up?
ZadYree	yo rindolf :)
ZadYree	Well, trying to convince myself it's time to code ^^
rindolf	ZadYree: how's life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness today?
rindolf	ZadYree: Stop! Coding time!
ZadYree	Hehehe
konverse	What if I do this? ><````'i> j-------\p
rindolf	ZadYree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo - Stop! Hammer Time.
rindolf	konverse: ASCII art?
gde33	konverse: you have to wrap it in a cdata section
ZadYree	rindolf, hehehe! Oh yeah!
konverse	You're so obvious rindolf.
konverse	I guess the wait watchers have no idea.
rindolf	ZadYree: meet konverse - he's my target of counter-trolling.
rindolf	konverse: s/wait/weight/
konverse	rindolf: Guess what? I'm trolling your website. I'll go and rate it.
rindolf	konverse: go ahead. Make my day!
ZadYree	troll day is best day
konverse	OOOOoooooh.
rindolf	konverse: any publicity is good publicity.
konverse	Like, how you started the alpha?
rindolf	konverse: alpha?
rindolf	konverse: alpha of what?
rindolf	ZadYree: heh.
konverse	Nm.
rindolf	ZadYree: "It's a good day to troll!"
rindolf	konverse: whatever.
rindolf	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf7MT1p1VNI - whatever.
ZadYree	rindolf, :)

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	May the best troll win!
Published	2014-07-27

The Round Trip Delay of Approaching a Girl

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rindolf	protist: I realised Sarah Michelle Gellar starred in the same show as Robin Williams. They played a father and daughter.
protist	rindolf: you are obsessed with her :p
rindolf	And the father divorced her mother and left her mother to raise her on her own, kinda like SMG in real life.
rindolf	protist: I iz obsessed with her.
rindolf	protist: she was one of my first loves.
protist	rindolf: haha
rindolf	protist: I was recently obsessed with Jennifer Lawrence too - I like the alpha female/insurgent/antagonist/rebel type of girls.
rindolf	protist: over at the Technion , I kinda hit on a girl with a nose ring who coloured her hair black, but she turned out to already have a boyfriend.
rindolf	protist: since then I realised I should be more honest and direct and also reduce the round-trip/time-to-market delay.
protist	rindolf: round-trip/time-to-market delay?
protist	rindolf: and a lot of girls will just say they have a boyfriend :p...and sometimes they do it to test you, because oddly they are only interested in a guy who persists in spite of the fake boyfriend
Jck_true	protist: Yeah you might not wanna mention ROI [= "Return On Investment"] when you're asking a girl on a date...
protist	rindolf: but sometimes it is lack of interest...and sometimes they really do have a boyfriend
protist	Jck_true: what do you mean? :p
rindolf	Jck_true: heh.
protist	Jck_true: I'm doing the monogamy thing at the moment
rindolf	Jck_true++ # Made me laugh.
rindolf	"What's your favourite position? CTO!"
pyon	protist: Wouldn't it be easier to simply say "not interested, bye"?
pyon	protist: I mean, in the case where they aren't interested.
protist	pyon: When do you ever remember girls being simple?
Jck_true	The Freaking FCC :)
pyon	protist: True that.
protist	pyon: and sometimes they may tell you they have a boyfriend...and actually have one...but will still sleep with you
protist	pyon: they might tell you just so you know that this is supposed to be discrete lol
vendu	pyon, nothing is simple with/about women :D
vendu	hey rindolf
rindolf	protist: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-xkcd-programming-languages-sex-talk - Haskell Sex.
protist	rindolf: i saw that when you linked it before :)
rindolf	<vendu> pyon, nothing is simple with/about women :D ==> lies! Just read "Women for dummies" and you're set!
pyon	rindolf: lol
vendu	hehe
vendu	=)
Svetlana	ffs
rindolf	HikaruBG: hi, no idea.
rindolf	Svetlana: hi.
rindolf	Svetlana: what's wrong?
rindolf	Svetlana: I hope you were not too offended by our sex talk or pseudo-sex talk here.
rindolf	We're not sexist - we just play ones in real life.
HikaruBG	Svetlana, what is ffs?
rindolf	Well, there's a difference between sexist and sexualised.
rindolf	HikaruBG: "FFS = for fuck's sake".
Svetlana	No, I'm not offended at the conversation. I am offended at how lame work I'm doing at setting focus and priorities, though. I am trying to get mediawiki running but in fact I'm not sure it's a good idea for me to do so or what I would be working on.
HikaruBG	thanks rindolf, i have learned something new today .... that early in the morning :)
HikaruBG	Svetlana, just take a 15 and step out from the office. Then figure all priorities out.
Svetlana	How do you define "take a 15"?
grim001	15 milliseconds
sandeep	vendu: hi
HikaruBG	15 minutes ... :)
HikaruBG	clean your head a bit
HikaruBG	fresh air
rindolf	Svetlana: yes, maybe take a walk.
rindolf	Svetlana: ah, I'm glad you're not offended.
HikaruBG	on another hand, Svetlana, where are you trying to deploy mediawiki?
rindolf	Well, boys will be boys (and girls will be girls).

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	“Baby, we’re so direct, we need to be on the same subnet!”
Published	2014-08-25

Life According To Valentine

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rindolf	In my imagination, my concept at the time of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Michelle_Gellar , who was a relatively wild and polyamorous girl (but still an awesome one) decided to duplicate herself and then said "I am going to call my new self 'Valentine'". So she gets duplicated and her duplicate then says "So I'm Valentine, right?"
njcomsec	does polyamorous mean a slut?
rindolf	njcomsec: well, not exactly.
rindolf	njcomsec: thing is - she was very picky about which guys she got involved with. But if she slept with you once, you don't need to worry about it happening again.
pyon	Is it not possible to have a fixed, small but non-singleton set of romantic partners?
rindolf	pyon: what does that mean?
njcomsec	i wouldn't worry about it :)
njcomsec	in fact i would worry she might NOT want to again
njcomsec	pyon i believe that is called open relationship
njcomsec	i am open to this idea
njcomsec	but so far i cant even find one nice girl who will date me
njcomsec	so this is the first step
o0elise0o	i have this problem where if i sleep with someone i usually don't want to ever again
njcomsec	that's cute
pyon	rindolf: A singleton set is a set with exactly one element. A small, non-singleton set of romantic partners would be, for example, having two or three romantic partners, but not having sex with arbitrary people.
rindolf	Also , Miranda Kerr recently bragged about all the great sex she's been getting with various willing men after being separated from her husband (= Orlando Bloom). I say - all the power to her.
rindolf	pyon: ah.
rindolf	pyon: well, she had a fixed (But often growing or getting reduced) set of those.
pyon	rindolf: Well... if it is often growing or shrinking, it is not fixed.
gde33\|2	o0elise0o: try costumes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJgYxWhDDWc
rindolf	pyon: ah.
rindolf	pyon: well, if her lovers had entered a relationship, she stopped sleeping with them.
rindolf	pyon: although not permanently.
pyon	rindolf: Ah!
rindolf	I imagined a short students' film about Valentine Gellar's life.
rindolf	It starts with showing her riding a bus and then there are the immortal words "I used to be Sarah Michelle Gellar".
rindolf	And Valentine had a steady boyfriend and also studied for a Ph.D. Well, she's a professor now.
rindolf	Anyway, at one point she visits her and Sarah's mother, who admits that while she knows that Valentine is technically her daughter, she causes her so few troubles and is so great, that she has a hard time thinking of her as her daughter - she's more like a younger friend.
gde33\|2	rindolf: you are spoiling the whole movie!
rindolf	gde33\|2: heh, it's not a real film.
gde33\|2	you underachiever!
gde33\|2	I say, make it so
rindolf	And then she visits a guy and sees that his room is in disarray and after she queries him for this he says "Ah, yes, Sarah was here last night. We had an awesome time." So Valentine says: "She couldn't have been! She stayed up late at a benefit and went to bed past 1 AM exhausted." . So he thinks for a moment and says: "So it wasn't her! No biggie."
KAROLINA	rindolf: are you fluffy?
rindolf	KAROLINA: no, I'm Fluttershy.
KAROLINA	rindolf: What is a fluffershy?
rindolf	And there's also a part where the original SMG and Valentine recall some memories from their mutual past together.
KAROLINA	JamesNZ are you fluffy?
rindolf	KAROLINA: s/ffer/tter/
KAROLINA	rindolf: i don't understand you
JamesNZ	KAROLINA: Nope.
rindolf	KAROLINA: Fluttershy is the sensitive pony in My Little Pony- http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Fluttershy
KAROLINA	rindolf: but i like Fluffle betteR!?
rindolf	KAROLINA: what is fluffle?
KAROLINA	rindolf: Google Fluffle!
KAROLINA	and then go to pictures

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	“I used to be Sarah Michelle Gellar”
Published	2014-08-29

How to win over a young boy in a pretend gun fight.

Display

rindolf	thecha: hi, what's up?
thecha	not much. I am running my trisquel gnu/Linux from an usb now
thecha	and you?
rindolf	thecha: I've been redditting and twittering.
rindolf	thecha: and I went on a walk now.
pulse	hi rindolf
rindolf	thecha: I met a father with two children. he scolded them.
rindolf	thecha: I asked him for their names and he said "why does it matter?" :-(
rindolf	pulse: hi.
rindolf	I also saw a lady sitting on a bench with two Pekinese dogs - one male and one female.
rindolf	they barked at me.
rindolf	Maybe she was afraid of me (their owner I mean).
ezrios	dogs bark at everything
rindolf	I also saw some bird watchers in the park earlier in the morning.
rindolf	ezrios: some dogs are amazingly calm.
rindolf	ezrios: I once met a huge Caucasian Shepherd dog who was less than one years old and called "Rambo" who was super-calm.
rindolf	His owner was also very friendly.
ezrios	a super-calm Rambo eh
epitamizor	cool story bro
rindolf	They say the dog and its owner resemble each other.
rindolf	epitamizor: every story is cool with the right attitude.
rindolf	epitamizor: http://www.reddit.com/r/TMNT/comments/2d9fo7/postrelease_movie_discussion_thread_2/ck3khga - see this.
rindolf	ezrios: yes , amazing.
rindolf	ezrios: Rambo was the epitome of a tough all powerful super-muscular anti-geeky warrior/action-hero.
rindolf	ezrios: but the fact of the matter is that the best combat warriors in the world are: 1. Not very muscular. 2. Geeks.
rindolf	http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/philosophy/putting-all-cards-on-the-table-2013/DocBook5/putting-all-cards-on-the-table-2013/best_warriors.html
thecha	OK i will try
thecha	the dog probably ws being aggressive because the owners mood was affecting him
thecha	the owner probably was being hostile so the dog followed suit
thecha	and the guy with the kids should have just said the names instead of being a dick about it
thecha	you go for walks often?
rindolf	thecha: yes, I go for walks a lot.
rindolf	thecha: yes, this father should learn some things after fatherhood.
rindolf	thecha: the children were nice.
rindolf	Oh! and on the way upstairs there was a very young boy with a toy gun and I pretended to wage an imaginary war with him. He enjoyed it.
thecha	rindolf-> who won the imaginary shoot out?
rindolf	thecha: he did I think.
rindolf	thecha: I let him win.
rindolf	thecha: he seemed to have enjoyed it.
rindolf	thecha: children can be so smart.
pulse	i don't think age has anything to do with smartness
rindolf	thecha: and it helped brighten my day.
rindolf	pulse: yes.
rindolf	pulse: I have actually grown smarter with age.
pulse	I've grown wiser. not much smarter
rindolf	pulse: ah.
rindolf	pulse: what's your distinction?
rindolf	pulse: I've grown wiser too.
pulse	smart is the ability to calculate things fast
pulse	wise is the ability to live your life ;)
rindolf	pulse: there are more parameters to intelligence than doing fast calculations.
pulse	i guess there's certain correlation between the two
rindolf	pulse: yes.
pulse	i know. there's different types of intelligence
pulse	but most types boil down to two things. calculations and speed
rindolf	pulse: ah. IQ?
pulse	any kind of intelligence
pulse	IQ is a sort of generalization of all types
rindolf	pulse: see https://twitter.com/shlomif/status/495252148775436288 - «Forget #IQ! #Sloppy → #Confident → #Smart!! #TeamGrimmie #confidence #competence #PublishOrPerish»
pulse	but it's also stupid
pulse	rindolf, hmm
pulse	what am i supposed to see there :P
pulse	i still don't know how twitter works
pulse	what are those hashtags supposed to be
pyon	rindolf: Meh, sloppiness is just sloppiness.
pyon	rindolf: One can be flexible without lowering one's own standards.
thecha	rindolf you can't let the enemy win
rindolf	thecha: yes, bring the Delta Team with Chuck Norris, Sylvester Stalone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and.. Summer Glau (!♥:-)) against this boy.
rindolf	there shall be blood tonight!
ssta	you really are obsessed with this Summer Glau

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	We need backups now! He’s killing us.
Published	2014-08-30

Spreading the love.

Display

rindolf	aidanh: I've solved Project Euler #141 yesterday and learned a valuable lesson about excessive forking to processes and capturing their output.
Snake2k	rindolf: Indeed >_>
rindolf	Namely: it kills performance.
rindolf	Snake2k: where do you live?
Snake2k	rindolf: I need to start doing Project Euler again :\|
rindolf	Snake2k: ah.
rindolf	Snake2k: we can become friends there.
Snake2k	rindolf: Northern Virginia, pretty much a mile or two away from D.C.
rindolf	Snake2k: ah.
Snake2k	rindolf: We can still be friends >_>
rindolf	Snake2k: heh.
rindolf	Snake2k: I don't friend Northern Virginians!
rindolf	Snake2k: ;-)
* Snake2k	does "gcc -Wall hug_rindolf.c -o hug --std=c11"
* Snake2k	does "./hug"
rindolf	Snake2k: southern virginians on the other hand...
* Snake2k	gets "Segmentation Fault (core dumped)"
Snake2k	rindolf: Why? :'( we're nice and shit :(
rindolf	Snake2k: heh, I'm just joking.
rindolf	Snake2k: I'm cool with Northern Virginians.
Twey	rindolf: ‘It kills performance’ — depends on your definition of ‘process’. POSIX processes are huge, but green threads in e.g. Haskell or Erlang are usually very cheap and can be used without much consideration.
* DarkCthulhu	has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
rindolf	Twey: I Was talking about POSIX processes.
rindolf	Twey: I captured the output of "factor" for convenience, and it proved to be a major slowdown.
rindolf	Twey: ERLANG! Munctional! Parallelism!
Snake2k	rindolf: but you hurt ma feelz :'(
rindolf	Snake2k: heh.
Tawre	Snake2k, just commit violence against him
Tawre	it'll fix everything
Tawre	and if it doesn't you're not using enough violence
Snake2k	Tawre: good idea :\|
* Snake2k	hugs the living rindolf out of rindolf
Myrl	I wonder if normal algebra would be fine with you using lambda functions.
* rindolf	sends 1e12 virtual kisses to Northern Virginia.
Myrl	Or curried functions.
* Tawre	kisses rindolf 0e13 times.
Myrl	guys get a room.
rindolf	Tawre: heh.
rindolf	Myrl: we got ##programming !
Snake2k	this is getting weird...
rindolf	It's a chat-room!
Snake2k	I hug... I don't do virtual kisses...
* Snake2k	slithers away...
* Snake2k	is all creeped out and shit...
rindolf	s/kisses/hugs/
Tawre	Snake2k, well, we can kill it "hugs" too if you want ;)
* Snake2k	slithers back
Snake2k	Tawre: <______________<
Twey	rindolf: ‘Parallelism’ — er… yeah. That's what you wanted :þ
Tawre	we can do parallel hugs too

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2015-02-19

Baseless

Display

ams	rebase is fun
Church-	Base in general is fun.
sir_galahad_ad	3rd base isn't bad
Church-	I mean come on man, are you a base-head or not?!
Faylite	4th base is fun
sir_galahad_ad	Base 16 is kinda neato
* rindolf	is all about that base.
* sir_galahad_ad	high-fives rindolf
rindolf	sir_galahad_ad: http://www.fivefingertees.com/all-about-that-base-no-rebels-t-shirt.html
Faylite	You can't use base jokes any more, cause all your base are belong to us.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2015-02-24

3 Years Experience in Swift

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_blizzy_	lol at people who are looking to hire people who have 3 years experience of Swift.
pulse	i have 1 year of experience with Swift and I've developed a minor depression in that time
pulse	should i sue oracle?
apotheon	I love how everyone who wrote three lines of code for the Linux kernel these days can now refer to his or her code running on things somewhere other than Earth to make themselves sound good, now.
rindolf	_blizzy_: heh.
_blizzy_	I have 4 years experience with Swift and 10 years experience of Node.
_blizzy_	hire me.
rindolf	_blizzy_: wasn't Swift created less than a year ago?
_blizzy_	rindolf, that's the joke.
rindolf	_blizzy_: yes.
pulse	oh, you mean Swift
pulse	as in apple
_blizzy_	node wasn't around also 10 years ago.
rindolf	_blizzy_: yes.
_blizzy_	rindolf, oh.
_blizzy_	https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/320ujx/why_cant_programmers_program_is_print_100_to_1/
pulse	could they choose a more stupid name
_blizzy_	I tripped on that problem.
apotheon	_blizzy_: If you don't have thirty years of experience with Java, you don't qualify.
pulse	only if they called it PHP 2 maybe it would be stupider
_blizzy_	print 100 -> 1, but start with (for i=0
rindolf	_blizzy_: «Chuck Norris has 50 years of proven experience in PHP/MySQL/Java. Each.»
_blizzy_	rindolf, Chuck Norris made a new sorting algorithm.
_blizzy_	roundhouse sorting.
pulse	chuck norris once outrun himself
_blizzy_	2003.
_blizzy_	I hope no one
_blizzy_	attempts to crash my app. c:
wei2912	rindolf: chuck norris can compile any randomly generated code with GCC
rindolf	wei2912: :-)
apotheon	That's impressive. GCC sometimes doesn't even compile standards compliant code.
pulse	chuck norris can roll a joint while swimming
_blizzy_	CN slammed a revolving door.
Twey	pulse: They could have chosen a much stupider name, like ‘Go’.
_blizzy_	Twey, or Java
wei2912	lmao
_blizzy_	I kid.
pulse	Twey, well at least Go doesn't have any bad connotations ... as far as i know
_blizzy_	GO is actually
_blizzy_	decent.
* Twey	resolves to call his next project ‘The’
apotheon	Java isn't a stupid name. It was just ruined by association with the language.
pulse	when i hear Swift, all i can think of is those horrible layout patterns in Netbeans
rindolf	wei2912: Chuck Norris once wrote a 10 million lines C++ program in MS Notepad without hitting the backspace key. And it compiled without errors or warnings and was 100% bug free.
_blizzy_	Java is bad IMO.
Twey	pulse: I mostly think of the bird
pulse	chuck norris once made a program that was 110% bug free
wei2912	rindolf: Chuck Norris once wrote Swift Swiftly
rindolf	pulse: and he donated the extra 10% for charity.
_blizzy_	Chuck Norris once wrote a Whitespace program without whitespace.
apotheon	pulse: Only once? Slacker.
pulse	rindolf, :D
wei2912	he Goes on to write Go
Twey	_blizzy_: That's easy
ams	isn't everything readable in go by default?
pulse	ams, that's what they said about Python
apotheon	Go is an excellent Java replacement.
ams	:-)
Twey	_blizzy_: (the empty program is a valid Whitespace program)
_blizzy_	Twey, oh.
_blizzy_	time to learn meteor.
pulse	i imagine it's possible to open a wormhole to another dimension using just javascript
_blizzy_	it's possible in Python
_blizzy_	import wormhole
apotheon	_blizzy_: I hear excellent things about Meteor. I also hear bad things . . . like the fact it's a JavaScript framework.
pulse	_blizzy_, from __future__?
_blizzy_	pulse, of course.
wei2912	heh
apotheon	pulse: Yes, that's possible, but only if you do it by accident.
apotheon	(re: JavaScript)
_blizzy_	you gotta add 'use strict'; for it to work.
Znoosey	pulse: why would a wormhole be to another dimension?
apotheon	I'm pretty sure neither Python nor JavaScript uses strict.
_blizzy_	JS does.
Znoosey	pulse: wormholes goes to other places in the galaxy, it does not move between dimensions
pulse	Znoosey, i thought all wormholes lead to dimensions with silly rabbits and such
apotheon	Seriously? I clearly haven't been writing "enough" JavaScript.
_blizzy_	https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Strict_mode
apotheon	I haven't yet encountered that.
Znoosey	galaxy = universe
pulse	apotheon, yeah, JS has use strict :L
pulse	Znoosey, wat
Znoosey	in my sentence it is!
Twey	As a string.
Znoosey	I just messed it up :P
pulse	galaxy is a subset of the universe
Twey	I thought that was a joke about Python's True = False
pulse	a universe might be a subset of a multiverse :P
Znoosey	pulse: yes, I messed it up in my sentence
pulse	a multiverse might be a subset of itself o_O
Znoosey	a multiverse is a subset of space
pulse	well what is space then
Znoosey	space might be infinite
_blizzy_	why is True = False even legal
_blizzy_	in Python.
pulse	_blizzy_, because of reasons
pulse	it's illegal in 3.0 AFAIK
Twey	_blizzy_: It's not in Py3
_blizzy_	OMG
apotheon	pulse: I think that instead of "galaxy = universe" what Znoosey meant was "s/galaxy/universe/".
_blizzy_	somehow sneak True = False into a python 2 program
fykos	Guys, why the arraylist only adds the last token to the list?http://pastebin.com/YbHLEqnA
pulse	apotheon, universe = universe? o_.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2015-04-10

English Spelling

Display

amigojapan	it seems the Tokyo Hackerspace has finally moved to it’s new location, I was waiting for this in order to give my programming 101 class over at their place….
rindolf	amigojapan: s/it’s/its
amigojapan	ty rindolf
rindolf	amigojapan: you're welcome .
amigojapan	rindolf: I really find that English rule strange, usually ’s is possessive
rindolf	amigojapan: well, you don't say he’s instead of his.
amigojapan	but its is the correct possessive for it
rindolf	amigojapan: yes, it is.
amigojapan	true
aidanh	amigojapan: With English, the only rule is that there are always exceptions
amigojapan	hehehe true aidanh , jkhdkjdsh shjsad sdlkhlsk ads h kds <— I declare this now valid English :)
aidanh	Heh
* amigojapan	should read his gibberish before posting, what if by pure chance I write something incriminating :)
rindolf	amigojapan: you misspelled "shsjad"
amigojapan	lol, rindolf

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2015-04-26

Who invented Satan?

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Ori_B	...I'm failing at typing.
hassoon_	yep
hassoon_	you're a fail
hassoon_	a shame on the human kind
aawe	hassoon_: I invented failure
aawe	please send royalty checks
hassoon_	aawe: you must be Satan.
aawe	I invented satan too
rindolf	aawe: Chuck Norris invented Satan!
aawe	rindolf: I'll need to send some cease or desist letters to Chuck’s lawyers for spreading such lies
aawe	or is that "cease AND desist"?
rindolf	aawe: AND
aawe	makes more sense, yeah
hassoon_	rindolf is satan
rindolf	hassoon_: so Chuck Norris or aawe invented me? ;-)
hassoon_	rindolf: yep
aawe	but then who invented aawe?
aawe	rindolf: for a token fee, I can list you as my inventor
rindolf	aawe: Chuck Norris did!
rindolf	aawe: I'd rather not make claims to Chuck Norris' work.
aawe	a chuck is the part holding the piece in a lathe, and norris is the cat in Hogwarts in Harry Potter
aawe	coincidence?

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Don’t reinvent Satan
Published	2015-05-06

Zuudolph

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rindolf	JohnBobSmith: ah.
Zuu	rindolf pindolf windolf, Hi :>
rindolf	Zuu: hi, sup?
rindolf	Zuu: maybe you should be Zindolf!
Zuu	rindolf: nothing much, just weekendstinating :>
rindolf	Zuu: ah.
Zuu	Wooh, Zindolph :P
rindolf	Or Zuundolph.
Zuu	:D
* Zuu	is now known as Zuudolph
rindolf	Zuudolph: heh.
rindolf	Zuudolph: you're missing an n.
Zuudolph	The miss was kindof intentional :P
Zuudolph	I mean, itetioal
rindolf	Zuudolph: ah.
rindolf	Zuudolph: heh.
rindolf	Death to the n!
Zuudolph	:P
rindolf	We do't eed o stiki' N!
rindolf	N is overrated.
rindolf	Zuudolph: nice.
Zuudolph	:D
rindolf	Zuudolph kinda sounds like Rudolph.
Zuudolph	That's what I was going for :P
rindolf	Zuudolph: ah.
JohnBobSmith	Zuudoplh the black and white penguin! Had a very shiny beak! And if you ever saw him, you would know he's a programmer!
JohnBobSmith	lolz
JohnBobSmith	Zuudolph: Do you like my attempt at poetry?
Zuudolph	JohnBobSmith: it's a little arbitrary... so I guess it's good poetry :D
JohnBobSmith	Zuudolph: :D

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2015-05-17

Consumers

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blehblah	hi
kalx	blehblah: sup
blehblah	not much, getting ready to release :)
kalx	blehblah: nice, releases are always fun (well, at least the feeling afterwards)
blehblah	kalx, it's a nice feeling when you release an improved version of your stuff, it's exciting
kalx	haha. I only had the caveat because releases can be different depending on the project. (Deploying to a live server environment can be stressful sometimes)
blehblah	oh, pff, nah I'm just consumer software.
rindolf	blehblah: consumer software? Do people consume your software? ;-)
rindolf	blehblah: is there less of it left after they pay for/use it?
blehblah	:D
txdv	rindolf: the consumer consumes the souls of the developers with their requests and what not
rindolf	txdv: heh.
ashmew2	this discussion WILL deter prospective developers
ashmew2	:/
* rindolf	consumes txdv's soul.
txdv	i have no soul
txdv	nothing to consume there
rindolf	txdv: that's good - souls are a nuisance.
blehblah	txdv: consumer = management? :D (j/k)
* rindolf	consumes txdv completely.
Xgc	Even in the electronic case, resources are limited. Each download may reduce the product available.
txdv	Cannibalism man
txdv	Mein Teil

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2015-07-03

Day of the Tentacle, like existence, does not exist

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xeno	I wish Adventure games (the old style) hadn't crashed so badly. I like the Telltale Games, but they've turned into movies rather than click & point games
xeno	although I just got Broken Sword on my ipad, that seems promising
xeno	but still not anywhere near Lucasarts
xeno	imagine the old Lucasarts team joining up and making Maniac Mansion III
themachinist	hmm that would be cool. haven’t played MM
xeno	themachinist: MM2 is better known as Day of the Tentacle
xeno	themachinist: and it's the best adventure games of all time, easily spins circles around both Monkey Island and Sam & Max
themachinist	heresy!
xeno	play it, then say heresy again! it's insanely good
themachinist	now i have something to do this weekend
xeno	definitely... and unless you cheat, probably longer :)
rindolf	xeno: I preferred the Monkey Islands over Day of the Tentacle.
rindolf	xeno: and I finished the Day of the Tentacle.
rindolf	xeno: it's a good idea not to state an opinion as a fact. :-)
xeno	I would play DotT first, Sam & Max second, Monkey Island II third, not sure about 4th
xeno	rindolf: but it's a fact that DotT is the best! :)
themachinist	Twey: i think its busybox, not sure how to tell
themachinist	jkbbwr: ?
rindolf	xeno: "In my opinion, it's a fact!"
xeno	rindolf: exactly!
rindolf	xeno: stop! You don't exist! You cannot have opinions.
rindolf	xeno: I am not -> I think not.
xeno	rindolf: you don't need to exist or to think for DotT to be the best adventure game :)
rindolf	xeno: you cannot have opinions and you certainly cannot state facts.
rindolf	xeno: heh.
rindolf	xeno: DotT does not exist! Thus, it can not be played.
rindolf	xeno: the Matrix HAZ YOU!
xeno	rindolf: of course the matrix has me
xeno	or I have the matrix
xeno	or maybe I am the matrix
rindolf	xeno: in which cell? ;-)
xeno	#9, the one with the soft fluffy walls
rindolf	xeno: a matrix is two-dimensional.
xeno	only inside the matrix
rindolf	xeno: maybe an Evil Genius convinced us that matrices are a valid mathematical concept.
Twey	Matrices are just a special case of tensors.
xeno	rindolf: that's likely, but you don't even need that... the Evil Genius argument is just Descartes being incapable of imagining himself as not created by something conscious
rindolf	Twey: "Flobakonins are just a special case of loremipsums."
Twey	rindolf: Gesundheit!
rindolf	Twey: heh.
rindolf	xeno: i agree that reality can be very different from what we perceive it.
rindolf	xeno: assuming powerful enough misconceptionists.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	“In my opinion, it’s a fact that I don’t exist!”
Published	2015-08-24

Eat or be eaten

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pulse	that feel when you're hungry but you're too lazy to cook food
rindolf	pulse: do you have apples or snacks?
Flonk	pulse: 3pm, still didn't manage
novare	#ramennoodleslifestyle
Flonk	I know your feel
rindolf	pulse: can you order pizza?
pulse	Flonk, same here, lol
pulse	rindolf, yeah but i have no cash on me
pulse	so it's either cook food or starve
rindolf	pulse: ah.
pulse	rindolf, i have bananas
pulse	:D
pulse	no apples
adsc	pulse: you could hunt for neighbour's cats
pulse	i like my neighbour's cats
pulse	they're cute
pulse	also i don't eat cats
adsc	then hunt further away in your neighbourhood
pulse	or any sort of meat for that matter
adsc	oh
adsc	then hunt for their fruits and vegetables
pulse	:D
* pulse	packs a rifle
pulse	pesky carrots, won't get away from me this time
PlanckWalk	If you eat cats, then you'll be reducing the amount of meat eaten in the world.
adsc	shotgunning the ground is a surprisingly effective way to reveal the treasures that lie within
pulse	PlanckWalk, that's paradoxical. i'll be eating meat so i'll be increasing it
PlanckWalk	But you'll be reducing the meat that would otherwise be eaten by those cats in their life!
pulse	ah.
pulse	i don't mind cats eating meat
adsc	and he'll increase the corn that's eaten by mice
adsc	which increases world hunger
adsc	so it's bad to eat cats
adsc	better eat dogs
adsc	they are useless
adsc	although I guess they to have a positive impact on sales of the shoe industry
adsc	so maybe it's not good to eat dogs either, or the shoe industry will falter
pulse	now I'm not hungry any more
pulse	so this chat was somewhat beneficial

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2015-08-25

SCC - the Socialist Compiler Collection

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rindolf	pyon: I'm trying to get inkscape to stop segfaulting on Mageia Cauldron.
rindolf	pyon: there was a big GCC/C++ transition to GCC-5.2.x
pyon	rindolf: :-O
pyon	rindolf: What [use case / particular sequence of actions] makes it segfault?
rindolf	pyon: just running it.
rindolf	right on startup.
schquid	That delicious ABI breakage?
pyon	rindolf: Ah!
rindolf	schquid: yes!
rindolf	schquid: it's part of the conspiracy of the Capitalists to oppress the proletariat!
rindolf	schquid: GCC is controlled by the Bourgeoisie.
schquid	I knew it!
rindolf	schquid: heh, heh.
rindolf	schquid: I'm planning to create SCC - Socialist Compiler Collection to end the oppression! ;-)
schquid	Hahaha we'll need to come up with a very socialist license for it
alphabutcho	wazzup guys
rindolf	schquid: Socialist Programmers of the World - UNITE!
schquid	All hail the glorious liberated proletarian front!
rindolf	alphabutcho: schquid and I are discussing our plans to end the oppression of the proletariat by the open source-proliferating Capitalistic hegemony!
rindolf	schquid: :-)
rindolf	schquid: from each according to his hard-disk capacity - to each according to his warez's size!
rindolf	LOL.
schquid	Hahaha we could make this a thing :P
rindolf	alphabutcho: actually , I'm trying to rebuild the Inkscape package here on Mageia Cauldron because it segfaults.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	You get Marx for Trying
Published	2015-08-28

Get a Cyberclue

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mrfhitz	I use the DNS to because my country blocks some web pages from us. So the only way to access the pages its to use a external DNS or a proxy.
kadoban	mrfhitz: They just block at the DNS level? Brilliant.
GeDaMo	kadoban: lots of places do that
schquid	kadoban, these are probably the same people that prefix anything computer related with "cyber" :D
kadoban	schquid: Heh.
rindolf	schquid: heh.
rindolf	schquid: I detest the "cyber" modifier.
GeDaMo	Do you ... cyberdetest it? :P
rindolf	GeDaMo: heh.
adsc	rindolf: how did it even happen that people use "cyber" for computery stuff?
schquid	rindolf, yeah me too. Sadly the main users are people in positions of power
rindolf	schquid: yes.
GeDaMo	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Cyberdistasteful
Published	2015-10-31

How to get a Job?

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Myrl-saki	I'd accept any job offered to me on the spot, probably.
thecha	Myrl-saki try to get a short internship - preferably paid
FAMAS	thecha: your reply is not made from a global point of view
Myrl-saki	As long as it's not Java.
thecha	and if you do 3 or so of them you are bound to be handed a job if you ask for on e at the end of them
sbrg	sure
Myrl-saki	lol
thecha	just make a good impression: be pleasant to be around with, be on time, be diligent in your work, try to make your work better every day
sbrg	How to get a job with a cs degree in Denmark: 1. get degree 2. get job
thecha	if you work in this way you will make yourself very valuable to your company and they wont let you leave
Myrl-saki	sbrg: lol
thecha	Myrl-saki so i guess move to denmark
Myrl-saki	thecha: First step. Obtain a job.
thecha	no first step obtain internships
thecha	:D
Myrl-saki	thecha: First step. Obtain internship.
sbrg	How to get a job: 1. get a job for 5 years for 5 years of experience. 2. get a job easily because you have 5 years of experience.
sbrg	easy!
Myrl-saki	sbrg: lol
thecha	the job you get for the 5 years of exp does it require 5 years exp?
sbrg	yes.
Myrl-saki	lol
Myrl-saki	So true.
sbrg	thecha: no, sorry
sbrg	misread
sbrg	it requires 10 years of experience
thecha	well no problem then, just get a previous job for 5 years for every new job you get
thecha	what kind of experience are you getting at work anyway?
sbrg	how to get a job: 1. solve the halting problem. 2. write a program that, given a job and an application you have written, terminates if you will be hired. 3. run halting problem solver on program for all jobs/applications 4. ??? 5. Profit
Myrl-saki	sbrg: Lol.
sbrg	How to solve your unemployment issue: 1. create skynet 2. die at the hands of skynet 3. there are no humans so there are no jobs so by vacuous truth everyone has a job
rindolf	sbrg: heh.
sbrg	I'm full of good solutions today
sbrg	if I could only solve this deadlock issue

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2015-11-28

Expansions of PHP

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Rounin	PHP has e-mail functionality built in
jkbbwr	Don't use PHP and don't program anything
justanotheruser	PHP - pretty happy programming
rindolf	justanotheruser: PHP - pretty hopeless programming
powered	PHP - (PHP) hates programmers
rindolf	Also s/hopeless/horrible/
jkbbwr	PHP = Pretty Hopeless Paper mache
Yeomra	PHP = prehistoric programming :3
Rounin	Probabilistic Haphazard Programming
Rounin	It's the new thing!
wei2912	probably haphazard programming
justanotheruser	Please Hang Programmers
wei2912	justanotheruser++

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2015-12-11

Sunday Bloody Sunday

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rindolf	Hi all! Happy Sunday Bloody Sunday!
* vdamewood	hands rindolf the magic Orange of Clobbergok
* rindolf	eats that magic Orange.
rindolf	vdamewood: that Orange tasted like watermelon.
vdamewood	That's the magic.
* Zeno`	gives rinny a big kiss
Zeno`	(not gay BTW)
* rindolf	eats the kiss.
Zeno`	:D
vdamewood	rindolf: Which Bloody Sunday are you talking about?
rindolf	vdamewood: U2’s.
vdamewood	That's in late January
vdamewood	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)
beaky	hello
vdamewood	beaky: Hell-o
rindolf	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Bloody_Sunday
rindolf	beaky: hell!
vdamewood	rindolf: The link in that article to the event the song is about points to the page I linked to.
ssta	rindolf: the song is about the day
rindolf	ssta: I know.
ssta	it's also not new year's day (yet)
ssta	one of the few U2 songs I like

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2015-12-27

Kotlin

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jkbbwr	Gosh kotlin really makes things simpler
jkbbwr	https://gist.github.com/jkbbwr/3f6fdca5d74f7c584fa7
rindolf	jkbbwr: you can't stop telling us about how great kotlin is, can you? ;-)
rindolf	"Kotlin makes the sun shine, and the birds sing, and the Earth revolve around the sun, and it convinced the Knights who until recently said 'Ni' to stop saying 'Ni'."
rindolf	Kotlin is life. Kotlin is love.
war877	Praise kotlin! what is kotlin?
rindolf	war877: if you have to ask what kotlin is , you'll never know!
rindolf	beaky loves Kotlin.
Rounin	I think they now say "Ekki ekki ekki tapannnnnnnnnnnng"
rindolf	God wrote the universe in Kotlin.
millerti	Who is kotlin and what's special about the code you linked to?
war877	Oh great. Yet another language to put on my research list.
rindolf	war877: Kotlin is the meaning of life.
Rounin	Not only that, but Kotlin also is life itself
rindolf	Rounin: yes!
jkbbwr	rindolf: people do it for FP I get to do it for Kotlin

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Give me Kotlin.
Published	2015-12-30

Zeno’s “Coding for Nothin’” Song

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Now look at them yo-yo's that's the way you do it
You code ya free source in the IDE
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Coding for nothin' but the clicks are free
Now that ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Lemme tell ya them guys ain't dumb
Maybe get a blister on your ctrl-key finger
Maybe get a blister on your help F1
We gotta program microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We gotta code these refrigerators
We gotta code these colour TV's
See the little faggot with the parser and the markup
Yeah buddy that's his own code
That little faggot got his own toy language
That little faggot he's a millionaire
We gotta program microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We gotta code these refrigerators
We gotta code these colour TV's
I shoulda learned to code the hello world
I shoulda learned to code them things
Look at that mama, she got it compilin' in the background
Man we could have some fun
And he's up there, what's that? Hawaiian noises?
Bangin' on the keyboard like a chimpanzee
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Do your coding for nothin' get your clicks for free
We gotta program microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We gotta code these refrigerators
We gotta code these colour TV's
Now that ain't workin' that's the way you do it
You code ya free source in the IDE
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Coding for nothin' but the clicks are free
Coding for nothin' and clicks for free
— Written by Zeno from Freenode’s ##programming, based on the “Money for Nothing” song by Dire Straits. The parody is licensed under the public domain.

Author	Zeno from ##programming
Work	“Coding for Nothin’”
Published	2016-01-19

Bad Taste

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Dr_Coke	sunnymilk seems to match my personality
Dr_Coke	she’s into computers and seems fairly smart apart from the Katy Perry comment
rindolf	Dr_Coke: for the record, there are some Katy Perry songs that I'm fond of as well.
Dr_Coke	rindolf I'm sorry to hear that
rindolf	Dr_Coke: different people have different tastes.
Dr_Coke	well rindolf that's bad taste
rindolf	Dr_Coke: "bad taste"?
rindolf	Dr_Coke: by bad taste do you mean "taste that doesn't matches mine"?
jss_alpha	rindolf that's what people always mean by bad taste
rindolf	jss_alpha: heh, heh.
Dr_Coke	rindolf Katy Perry is bad taste

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Your bad taste is not my bad taste.
Published	2016-02-28

Hot Pink

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rindolf	Hi all.
DrIranian	hiiiiiii :)
rindolf	DrIranian: can I take one of your "i"s?
* DrIranian	agrees after long consideration
* rindolf	takes one of DrIranian 's "i" and colours it hot pink.
iwanttobreakfree	how old were you when you first started programming? i was 15-16
rindolf	iwanttobreakfree: I was about 10.
DrIranian	:D
rindolf	iwanttobreakfree: I wrote in XT BIOS BASIC.
rindolf	iwanttobreakfree: what did you write in?
DrIranian	rindolf: Girls calling me housewife, asking me for cooking advice, and now you paint my i pink :D
iwanttobreakfree	PaScAl
rindolf	iwanttobreakfree: ah, Pascal.
pulse	iwanttobreakfree, 12-13ish
rindolf	iwanttobreakfree: a Bondage-and-Discipline language.
rindolf	Mostly dead now.
vdamewood	I feel a need to write more stuff.
iwanttobreakfree	you have higher IQ then i guess
rindolf	iwanttobreakfree: what makes you think that?
iwanttobreakfree	dunno
vdamewood	I have a book on Pascal that I've never actually read.
iwanttobreakfree	it seemed to simple?
rindolf	iwanttobreakfree: and IQ is a silly measurement of intelligence not to say competence and performance.
DrIranian	IQ is good for a basic measurement
vdamewood	I once passed an IQ test.
vdamewood	> 60 is passing, right?
DrIranian	:(
iwanttobreakfree	actually you can have super high competence, but when you don't want to do the job, then it doesn't count
DrIranian	105 is passing
DrIranian	vdamewood: if you can turn on IRC, you probably have 105
rindolf	isn't the average IQ 90?
vdamewood	rindolf: 100
Serpentine_	Values below a small threshold deviating from 100 are generally very inaccurate
rindolf	DrIranian: "turn on IRC"?
DrIranian	rindolf: The same IQ in different countries is not the same
Serpentine_	100 points is defined as the mean and median in IQ tests
Zeno`	no wonder people are so stupid
* vdamewood	passed Zeno` the state-sponsored happy pills.
rindolf	vdamewood: Black Bile!
Myrl-saki	Guys.
rindolf	Myrl-saki: and girls.
* vdamewood	gives rindolf some Yellow bile to balance his humors.
rindolf	vdamewood: I want hot pink bile.
* DrIranian	seconds
DrIranian	I want pink bile
rindolf	vdamewood: so it will match the colour of DrIranian 's "i".
vdamewood	rindolf: Your only other choices are blood and phlegm
vdamewood	I can give you a mixture of 1 parts blood, 5 parts phlegm
rindolf	vdamewood: that's OK, I still have a lot of hot pink paint left to colour that bile.
DrIranian	vdamewood: those are the standard options, we are talking about tuning the fluids
rindolf	LOL.
Myrl-saki	WTF is happening.
Myrl-saki	`echo 'a' > Foo`
Myrl-saki	Then reading it in, say, Haskell and Java, it's "a\n"
rindolf	Myrl-saki: echo appends a newline by default.
rindolf	Myrl-saki: you can use echo -n IIRC
rindolf	not sure how portable -n is.
Myrl-saki	rindolf: Oh, I see.
vdamewood	IIRC --> In internet-relay chat
Myrl-saki	rindolf: That doesn't explain why vim and nano also saves that way though.
vdamewood	Because vim and nano assume you want a new line at the end of your text file.
Myrl-saki	vdamewood: I see.
rindolf	Myrl-saki: it's a configuration option.
rindolf	Myrl-saki: kate doesn't do it by default.
Myrl-saki	vdamewood: Why though?
* rindolf	colours the newline hot pink.
vdamewood	Because they're text files.
Myrl-saki	vdamewood: What's the benefit of such?
iwanttobreakfree	guys i have a genius idea: to make a programming language which supports all syntaxes ( func. programming, logic programming, OOP, etc)
Myrl-saki	iwanttobreakfree: lol
rindolf	Myrl-saki: for one, cat $file works nicer.
vdamewood	iwanttobreakfree: C++?
DrIranian	iwanttobreakfree: is this back in the future?
rindolf	iwanttobreakfree: syntaxes or semanticses?
iwanttobreakfree	it doesn't support func programming and logic pr.
rindolf	iwanttobreakfree: or do you mean paradigms?
iwanttobreakfree	everything!
* vdamewood	gives rindolf 20 cents.
vdamewood	(That's a pair o' dimes)
* Archer	gives iwanttobreakfree 60secs to say something intelligent
iwanttobreakfree	it's all mixed up. you can program everything with it
* rindolf	colours 10 of these cents hot pink.
* vdamewood	pats Archer on the head.
rindolf	iwanttobreakfree: we have a saying in Hebrew : "Catch a lot - didn't catch anything"
vdamewood	Looks like 60 seconds are up.
iwanttobreakfree	such a approach would result a highly effective program code and it would save thousands of human lives and it's a work of a lifetime for some people.
rindolf	iwanttobreakfree: also, reportedly Linus Torvalds once said that his primary responsibility as the chief developer of the Linux kernel is to say "No.".
iwanttobreakfree	i mean, you know logic programming languages and func. you know the differences? when you can mix them, then you could have better code
snyp	void free() { abort(); }
Serpentine_	iwanttobreakfree: You may have misspelled "Python"
vdamewood	snyp: void malloc(size_t sz) { return (void)rand(); }
sbrg	void* malloc(size_t sz) { real_malloc(3 * sz); return real_malloc(sz); }
snyp	you know... cause he wants to break free.
rindolf	snyp: like Queen? ;-)
snyp	you know... cause he wants to break free().
snyp	like LD_PRELOAD'ing a broken free
Archer	quiet(Account.find("iwanttobreakfree"))
snyp	dammit.
rindolf	snyp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Mc-NYPHaQ - if you don't get the ref.
rindolf	snyp: heh.
snyp	rindolf: i know the song
rindolf	snyp: nice pun.
vdamewood	void malloc(size_t sz) { void r = real_malloc(sz); free(r); return r; }
rindolf	snyp: good!
iwanttobreakfree	sorry busy at work
snyp	but i didn't quite like it when i heard it.. my fav queen song is bohemian rhapsody
snyp	probably the only queen song i like
rindolf	snyp: ah, I only like the Muppets' cover of Bohemian Rhapsody. Have you seen it?
snyp	no
pulse	snyp, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqwC41RDPyg
vdamewood	void *malloc(size_t sz) { int i; return &i; }
rindolf	snyp: here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgbNymZ7vqY
* snyp	watches
vdamewood	I
rindolf	vdamewood: heh.
vdamewood	I'm going to stop coming up with horrible implementations of malloc() now.
rindolf	Maybe we should write our own libc.
ams`	void malloc (ssize_t x) { static void a[4096]; static int ap; return a[ap++]; }
ams`	muhahaha
unreal	Afternoon vinleod :)
snyp	rindolf: lol it's awesome
rindolf	snyp: :-)

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	free() like a hot pink bird.
Published	2016-03-01

“What’s the Air Velocity of an Unladen Swift?”

Display

jailbot	I have a json file that I need in utf-8
jailbot	how would I go about doing this
rindolf	jailbot: isn't JSON utf-8 only?
rindolf	jailbot: and you can use iconv
jailbot	idk I'm serving a json file to my swift project
rindolf	adsc: heh, heh.
jailbot	and I'm getting this error "The data couldn’t be read because it isn’t in the correct format."
jailbot	and the docs say that it should be in utf-8
rindolf	jailbot: what are the HTTP headers?
jailbot	how can I check that
adsc	in your browser's dev tools
rindolf	jailbot: using a command line HTTP tool or a sniffer or whatever.
rindolf	jailbot: or adsc's suggestion.
squid_squad	visual studio is BUTTS
jailbot	type: Document
jailbot	I need to configure htaccess right
rindolf	jailbot: possibly.
jailbot	~.~
jailbot	its 2am I don't want this
rindolf	jailbot: go to sleep.
rindolf	jailbot: Tomorrow never dies.
jailbot	I'm on a role
rindolf	jailbot: s/role/roll/
jailbot	I want to hang out with my friends tomorrow
jailbot	not be writing swift haha
rindolf	jailbot: I want a pony!
rindolf	jailbot: what is the average air velocity of an unladen swift?
pluszak	rindolf: what distribution? African or European?
ssta	swallow surely?
rindolf	pluszak: a Cupertino swift.
rindolf	pluszak: designed by Apple in Kalifornia.
ssta	"what's the airspeed velocity of an unladen spit" doesn't sound right
rindolf	ssta: a swift is a bird similar to a swallow.
rindolf	ssta: but not very related.
ssta	I know :)
ssta	nobody ever wrote a book called "Swifts and Amazons"
rindolf	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift
ssta	swallows are clearly superior to swifts
rindolf	http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/orifice-open
* rindolf	wonders if there's a programming language called "Swallow"
ssta	if not there ought to be
rindolf	ssta: well volunteered!
ssta	rindolf: it would wind up being very similar to Java (but with a few fixes)
jailbot	haha rindolf
jailbot	I got it guys!
jailbot	I was missing a :
rindolf	jailbot: ah.
rindolf	jailbot: does it swiftly work now?
jailbot	yes!
jailbot	I'm so excited
rindolf	jailbot: ex-swift-elent!
jailbot	almost no code
rindolf	Or ex-swallow-lent.
rindolf	jailbot: can you go to sleep now? Swiftly?
adsc	rindolf: there doesn't seem to be a language called "swallow", but Spiral has a command called "swallow"
rindolf	adsc: ah.
rindolf	adsc: what is Spiral?
rindolf	adsc: I don't see it here - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=spiral%20programming%20language
adsc	rindolf: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Spiral
rindolf	adsc: heh, heh.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	As swiftly as possible
Published	2016-03-02

Java and JavaScript

Display

SillyMusings	How much money can I expect to make as a developer out of college?
quelqun_dautre	SillyMusings: 0$. Tax deduced.
rindolf	quelqun_dautre: well, that's a lower bound.
rindolf	SillyMusings: the correct answer is that it varies based on several parameters.
SillyMusings	rindolf, what are the parameters?
quelqun_dautre	what you know, what framework you can use, how good you are in an interview, where you are
rindolf	SillyMusings: 1. Where are you located. 2. Which languages do you know. 3. where you'll get hired.
SillyMusings	I know Javascript and Java
quelqun_dautre	where are you located ?
rindolf	SillyMusings: it's spelled "JavaScript" - not "Javascript"
SillyMusings	I am located in Oregon
little_bit	how much money you'll make is not a function of any of those inputs.
quelqun_dautre	and how good are you at Java[script] ?
little_bit	sad to say it's barely a function at all. predictability in terms of actual earnings is impossible these days.
SillyMusings	I'd say I'm okay at it
rindolf	quelqun_dautre: Java and JavaScript are two completely different things.
little_bit	if you want some examples, look at GlassDoor.
SillyMusings	What sort of range am I looking at?
little_bit	SillyMusings: GlassDoor.
quelqun_dautre	rindolf: I know.
little_bit	SillyMusings: anything from us will be an incomplete picture.
little_bit	SillyMusings: so draw from multiple sources.
SillyMusings	If I'm fresh out of college, am I a 'junior developer'?
little_bit	probably. god knows what you'll be placed into.
quelqun_dautre	SillyMusings: what is "okay" on your terms ? Do you know the play framework ? J2EE ?
little_bit	SillyMusings: I certainly hope you aren't expecting a lot of money.
SillyMusings	quelqun_dautre, no I'm stronger on the JS side
pilne	Java and javascript are often used in the same "completed" project these days, but they are completely different beasts for better or worse
SillyMusings	little_bit, glassdoor says average of 103k?
rindolf	quelqun_dautre: http://stackoverflow.com/a/245073 - case in point. ;-)
little_bit	SillyMusings: for what position?
little_bit	and where?
pilne	javascript is relatively strong right now due to node.js, it isn't ideal for everything but it can do a lot
* rindolf	thinks serving Java web applets from a Node.js service is bestest
TubbyTommy	JavaScript is relatively strong on it's own because they keep making it better, its not ever finished really
SillyMusings	yes I've been following es6 stuff
pilne	erm... rindolf?
rindolf	pilne: that was a joke! Relax!
pilne	yeah, but it is starting to add cruft
quelqun_dautre	SillyMusings: what do you know in JS ? What library can you use ? Ever used functional programming ? Do you know what a closure is ?
pilne	LOL i would hope so rindolf, that isn't impossible, i just can't see why you'd do it other than being a code-massochist
little_bit	SillyMusings: I'm going to assume you're fresh out of college, so let me make this clear: you're not getting those jobs.
rindolf	pilne: use the wrong tool for the job! ;-)

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2016-03-20

An IDE That Does Not Suck

Display

vdamewood	Maybe I should make an IDE.
vdamewood	One that doesn't suck.
rindolf	varesa: one thing I don't understand about JetBrains is why they have so many IDEs with a common codebase and different feature-sets. seems like a bad money-making scheme.
rindolf	vdamewood: it likely will suck. :-).
vdamewood	This coming from the guy who explains why all languages suck.
rindolf	vdamewood: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=joel-ms-lost-api-war-1
rindolf	vdamewood: and also https://xkcd.com/927/
vdamewood	Is that the one about competing standards?
rindolf	vdamewood: yes, it is.
vdamewood	Hey, every once in a while someone comes along, makes a new X, and completely obliterates every other X out there.
nso95	rindolf: hey!
vdamewood	Speaking of competing products, I need to learn mercurial.
jeaye	I don't see the need for yet another IDE.
rindolf	nso95: hi, sup?
nso95	nm, you?
rindolf	nso95: I woke up a while ago.
nso95	ah/
rindolf	nso95: and I am unable to reproduce the short benchmarking time I got yesterday. I've lost faith in humanity.
nso95	that’s rather unfortunate
vdamewood	My co workers: https://xkcd.com/1597/
nso95	this next semester is going to suck
vdamewood	The next semester always sucks, except the one after your last.
vdamewood	jeaye: There's no need for another bootloader either, but here I am.
jeaye	That's different.
jeaye	"One that doesn't suck." is the key point.
jeaye	You didn't say that about the bootloader.
vdamewood	Oh, yeah. I have no real goal to make mine not suck. Good point.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Completely obliterate all sucky IDEs
Published	2016-03-26

Dramatic Skills

Display

vendu	what's up guys?
rindolf	vendu: I handled the morning's E-mails.
vendu	rindolf, cool :)
adsc	rindolf: you must work on your dramatic skills
rindolf	adsc: my dramatic skills?
adsc	"I wade through the flood of the morning's electronic mail messages" sounds much better than "I handled the morning's emails"
adsc	well, it would if it had correct grammar
rindolf	vendu: I've been working on the Kakuro Project Euler problem.
rindolf	adsc: heh, heh.
adsc	rindolf has been chipping away at the Project Euler's Kakuro complex
rindolf	adsc: will you be my ghost author? ;-)
adsc	rindolf: sure, but it might involve your character having romantic encounters with stoic goats
adsc	rindolf lost himself in the endless depth of the black goat's rectangular pupil, his self utterly annihilated by the vast void hiding behind the tiny window; a passage into a realm he thought lost forever
rindolf	Yay! Inbox Zero! Or as adsc would put it "I stare into the empty abyss of my inbox signifying my victory. "I have battled against entropy and came out victorious" I tell myself."
adsc	rindolf: that's it!
adsc	rindolf: your life becomes 100% more epic if you just want to
rindolf	Now to train spamassassin.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	100% more epic; 100% more awesome
Published	2016-05-14

Big JPEGs

Display

rindolf	Wow! The chromium-browser's sources tar.xz is 531,505,652 bytes.
pyon	Wow.
pilne	that's almost as big as a medium resolution jpg of my....
merkazu	computer
rindolf	pilne: you have big JPEGs.
pilne	that's what she said rindolf :)
rindolf	pilne: heh.
merkazu	i like big gifs and i cannot lie~
pilne	hah!
rindolf	merkazu: heh.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2016-05-14

Write-only

Display

rindolf	I was told that Forth is a write-only language.
GeDaMo	Depends on style
Myrl-saki	Yeah, on some styles, you can't even write.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Read-less and Write-less
Published	2016-06-14

Windows Update

Display

rindolf	Bleh! Windows Update is acting up again. I swear that it is the bottom of the bottomless abyss of suck.
Trashlord	I know the pain
bahamut24	My windows firewall has been broken ever since I installed windows 7 :/
rindolf	Trashlord: let's inflict that pain on the Microsoft software devs that produced such crap!
Trashlord	rindolf: yeah, we'll tie them to a chair for days upon days, and then say "See what it feels like to sit here waiting forever?"
rindolf	Trashlord: heh, heh.
workmad3	bahamut24: there was a time when Windows Firewall wasn't broken?
bahamut24	Today was completely unproductive, no lines of code written.
Trashlord	bahamut24: were you solving problems in your head, or thinking about design decisions, though?
bahamut24	No just watched pointless shit on youtube.
bahamut24	lmao
Trashlord	ah
kadoban	Was it good pointless shit?
bahamut24	kadoban let me check my watch history
kadoban	If you don't remember what you watched, couldn't have been that good :-/
bahamut24	I see hitler parodies, best of news bloopers, "Bill O'reily gets owned by kid", "woman live in mans closet for a year" plus lots more
bahamut24	"the orlando massacre"
bahamut24	hahahah lots of stupid shit.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2016-06-14

Vintage HTML and sudo rights

Display

vdamewood	gurra: You just have to make sure that there isn't any sort of infinite recursion on the left-hand side of an expression.
vdamewood	Damn.
ayush1	vdamewood: gurra has quit
vdamewood	ayush1: <sarcasm>No kidding?</sarcasm>
ayush1	<reality>nature of kidding</reality>
Trashlord	<this stuff>doesn't make you funny</thisstuff>
* PlanckWalk	<blink>blinks</blink>
Rounin	<span style="color:red;font-weight:bold">LOLOLOLOLOL</span>
* ayush1	<thinks>wtf</thinks>
vdamewood	ayush1: You forgot the acronym tag.
nitrix	<marquee>Trololololol</marquee>
vdamewood	<blink><marquee>This is my new web page in 1996!</blink></marquee>
Rounin	<img src="under_construction.jpg"><h1>Be sure to bookmark this page!</h1><Html/>
rindolf	Rounin: heh, heh
Rounin	:D
nitrix	There has be [ 0 0 0 0 0 2 5 ] visitor on this page.
nitrix	*been
snyp	{opinion: "hate markup"}
* TheMadcapper	has quit (Quit: TheMadcapper)
vdamewood	nitrix: No. has be is correct. ;)
ayush1	vdamewood: no "have been" is correct
nitrix	vdamewood: You deserve a spanking.
vdamewood	ayush1: Thank you Captain Oblivious.
ayush1	vdamewood: your welcome
ayush1	thas are Englais
nitrix	One shall respect thy language.
* vdamewood	is not the one.
ayush1	nitrix: supeir sitpusting
nitrix	That leaves only zero then, in our binary world :(
vdamewood	There are 10 kinds of people in the world.
ayush1	Quit: This is the end. Goodbye cruel world!
vdamewood	I just noticed that I have a lot of code that's commented out in my shold-be-ready-to-release library.
* ayush1	is pretty sure vdamewood doesn't have sudo rights
vdamewood	ayush1: sudo make me a sandwich
vdamewood	s/shold/should/
ayush1	vdamewood: sudo !!
ayush1	vdamewood: did it make you a sandwhich right now?
vdamewood	No. I'm still not a sandwich.
rindolf	vdamewood: heh.
ayush1	vdamewood: sudo !!; sudo !!; sudo !!; sudo !!; now you should have 4 sandwhich's on your plate.
ayush1	vdamewood: including you
vdamewood	Yay!
* vdamewood	eats vdamewood
* ayush1	steals some of vdamewood's sandwhiches
* ayush1	4 to be exact
vdamewood	I already ate one of them. So you can't steal it.
* rindolf	poisons the sandwiches.
* vdamewood	barfs on rindolf
ayush1	vdamewood: I can still eat 4 of them
vdamewood	I want aleph-null sandwiches.
* ayush1	orders astatine and mixes it with vdamewood's sandwhiches
rindolf	vdamewood: you should hope some of them are not poisoned.
ayush1	rindolf: I have added astatine -_-.
ayush1	rindolf: BTW I am a zombie tintin now
* vdamewood	reboots ayush1
* ayush1	is alive again

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2016-06-19

How to increase productivity?

Display

iamrohit7	how to increase productivity?
vdamewood	iamrohit7: Find the productivity menu, and select "Increase"
iamrohit7	is it a dropdown? i hate them.
rindolf	vdamewood: heh.
rindolf	iamrohit7: it is hiding inside the Hamburger icon.
rindolf	iamrohit7: and requires activation in about:config .
rindolf	iamrohit7: there are various productivity methods like "Getting Things Done".
iamrohit7	oh.
iamrohit7	cool. where exactly is that config file?

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Be productive! Be-ee productive!
Published	2016-07-17

Microsoft Software and Speed

Display

vdamewood	This install for visual studio is taking forever.
rindolf	vdamewood: lies! It takes at least forever and two weeks.
rindolf	vdamewood: it will end a short time before the heat death of the universe.
rindolf	vdamewood: one thing I learned is not to expect Microsoft to make fast software. They tend to take more than Intel gives.
ibouvousaime_	lol
amigojapan	yeah, i agree with rindolf , although last time I used VS it was reasonably fast
ibouvousaime_	how is vs compared to Linux ides BTW, I never used vs since I moved to Linux a while ago and didn't turn back
Yaiyan	It's not quite vim
rindolf	amigojapan: Windows Update on Windows 7 is horribly slow and unresponsive. I gave up on updating my windows 7 partition on my laptop.
vdamewood	ibouvousaime_: Visual studio is great if you're working with .NET.
rindolf	amigojapan: I was told it's better on windows 10.
amigojapan	vdamewood: I see
rindolf	ibouvousaime_: the Microsoft CL.EXE compiler is crappy and non-standard-compliant.
amigojapan	rindolf: I often hear "it is better in [insert newest version of windows here]". I have grown untrustworthy of this claim
rindolf	amigojapan: heh, true.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2016-07-18

One’s relationship with C

Display

_ic2000	that feeling when someone tells me they found python too hard so they're going to learn C because it's "easy and not outdated"...
Brando753	_ic2000: its not outdated :P but yea that is a silly thing to say
_ic2000	Brando753, but they were implying that python was outdated lol
Brando753	_ic2000: yea that's pretty bad
Brando753	_ic2000: python is awesome
Brando753	I love C
Brando753	I really do but I would never program what I do in python in C
magneticduck	are you sure you love C?
Brando753	magneticduck: its a love hate relationship :I
pulse	i would like to see if i love C while I'm out at sea
Brando753	lol
magneticduck	I think a relationship a developer might have with C is less love, more codependency
nso95_	he hits me because he loves me
Brando753	nso95_: exactly!
magneticduck	he segfaults because he trusts me
gmurop	So you don't love C, C loves you
pulse	C lovers ~-> clovers
pulse	it was meant to be
rindolf	magneticduck: heh.
rindolf	magneticduck: LOL.
Brando753	magneticduck: he works perfectly in the debugger then crashes normally because he loves you
Brando753	all that C love
Brando753	C would be miserable without valgrind
Brando753	and GDB
rindolf	Brando753: heh.
magneticduck	when he corrupts all over my memory, he's just venting his anger from work
magneticduck	it's normal, all languages do that
rindolf	magneticduck: heh.
nso95_	I fell down the stairs
Brando753	nso95_: did C push you?
rindolf	nso95_: that sucks.
Brando753	nso95_: or are you being serious, in which case sorry :I
nso95_	nah, just kidding
Brando753	:D
rindolf	nso95_: ah.
nso95_	I don’t have stairs

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Love as Deep as the C
Published	2016-07-28

EvilChristmas

Display

rindolf	Zuu: some people told me they think a Freecell/etc. solver is useless, but it has some uses and is my most popular project todate.
Zuu	I’m mostly surprised that you can find the spirit to work on it for so long.
Zuu	like, so many years.
Zuu	But as long as you find the time to distribute Santas presents, it's all good :P
rindolf	Zuu: I actually don't distribute Santa's presents - that is goody-two-shoes-reindeer's job. Being an EvilReindeer I do the opposite - I steal all the presents to maintain balance in the force.
bizarrefish	rindolf: Do you have an evil master?
Zuu	rindolf, Noooooh!
bizarrefish	Perhaps a jolly one?
rindolf	bizarrefish: no! I'm my own master.
Zuu	rindolf, that's too evil! :<
rindolf	bizarrefish: but I have some collaborators.
rindolf	Zuu, bizarrefish : we use EvilReindeer-driven-EvilConspiracy
rindolf	Zuu: it's the ultimate EvilParadigm
Zuu	rindolf, i bet there's someone who just injects these thoughts into your head when Christmas is over, and just before Christmas starts, they inject Rudolph thoughts into your head :>
rindolf	Zuu: my plan for this year is to cancel Christmas altogether.
rindolf	and replace it with EvilChristmas
Zuu	rindolf, If i don't get presents, i know who's fault it is now :P
rindolf	Zuu: you'll get EvilPresents this time. ;-)
Brando753	rindolf: D: but I liked non-evil Christmas, non-evil Santa Claus was always so nice and jolly
Brando753	And getting presents which don't try and do evil unspeakable things to you is nice as well
* rindolf	uses his magical EvilAntlers to convert Brando753 into EvilBrando753 so he'll like EvilChristmas
Brando753	No...Must...Resist
* Brando753	is now known as EvilBrando753
EvilBrando753	damn
EvilBrando753	:I
rindolf	Brando753: resistance is futile
DrBenway	all your base are belong to us
rindolf	EvilBrando753: heh, welcome to the EvilReindeer Evil World Domination Evil Conspiracy!
rindolf	EvilBrando753: you're one of us now.
* vassagus	(~vassagus@186.4.2.162) has joined
bizarrefish	:/
EvilBrando753	one of us, one of us, gooble gobble gooble gobble
parathon_	Hello
ibouvousaime	hello parathon_
ibouvousaime	this room has 722 people, yet so few are active
ibouvousaime	bizarrefish: isn't it ohms ?
rindolf	ibouvousaime: that's the nature of IRC.
EvilBrando753	ibouvousaime: man could you imagine if they were all active now?
EvilBrando753	ibouvousaime: no one would be able to converse
EvilBrando753	ibouvousaime: the buffers would move so fast
rindolf	EvilBrando753: heh.
ibouvousaime	yeah true haha EvilBrando753
EvilBrando753	you think I am joking, but it would be horrible, IRC was never designed for such high volume
ibouvousaime	I'm trying to imagine it in my mind at the moment hahaha
ibouvousaime	it would be like a terminal you use to play VLC videos
pyon	ibouvousaime: 1 Ohm = 1 Volt / 1 Ampère
ibouvousaime	pyon: ohh
rindolf	EvilBrando753: sup?
EvilBrando753	rindolf: reading up on old censorship laws here in the US
EvilBrando753	rindolf: good old wikipedia
EvilBrando753	never realized there used to be a supreme court ruling stating free speech did not extend to films
EvilBrando753	rindolf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Film_Corp._v._Industrial_Commission_of_Ohio
EvilBrando753	it was a 9-0 ruling as well
EvilBrando753	which is insane to think about
rindolf	EvilBrando753: ah, I see.
rindolf	EvilBrando753: wikipedia may be good, but it's not too old.
EvilBrando753	I just want a printed copy of wikipedia for the sake of having one
EvilBrando753	I hate trees with a passion
EvilBrando753	:P
rindolf	EvilBrando753: will this printed copy be a wiki as well?
EvilBrando753	well it will have to update every time Wikipedia does https://what-if.xkcd.com/59/
pyon	why do people call electric potential “voltage”? it's as if they called time “secondage” or distance “metrage”
pyon	errr
pyon	nvm
pyon	i meant “electric potential”
pyon	difference*
jrslepak	pyon: FWIW, "amperage" is sometimes used too
jrslepak	pyon: I don't think I've ever heard "teslage" or "henryage" though :-P
ivegotasthma	ownage
MisterSyntax	c
MisterSyntax	oops
MisterSyntax	i wanted to press ctrl+A,+C xD
MisterSyntax	have fear for I is here!
MisterSyntax	there we go
MisterSyntax	(haha)
rindolf	MisterSyntax: you iz here?
MisterSyntax	yez
rindolf	MisterSyntax: are you here to ruin the day?
MisterSyntax	yez
rindolf	MisterSyntax: awesome.
MisterSyntax	i brought demons and angry spirits with me
rindolf	MisterSyntax: you sound Evil and I like Evil.
MisterSyntax	rindolf, want some? :D
nitrix	That's unfortunate. We needed more trolls, not demons.
* MisterSyntax	points at demon nr 3 and angry spirits 1 through 10
MisterSyntax	you can have those
rindolf	MisterSyntax: thanks!
MisterSyntax	rindolf, you’re welcome, and remember, create havoc and despair wherever you go!
rindolf	MisterSyntax: thanks!
* MisterSyntax	laughs evil-ish from his dungeon tower
rindolf	MisterSyntax: isn't a dungeon supposed to be underground?
MisterSyntax	yeah but it's a tower.. in a dungeon
nitrix	I put on my robe and wizard hat...
MisterSyntax	so imagine a great cave
MisterSyntax	with numerous caves joined to it
MisterSyntax	and in that great cave there's a tower
MisterSyntax	and at the top of that tower is my room with a nice window overviewing the magma flow of the earth.
MisterSyntax	;-)
rindolf	MisterSyntax: I wonder how you get an Internet connection there.
MisterSyntax	easy, wifi.
MisterSyntax	hahahahahah
rindolf	MisterSyntax: heh.
MisterSyntax	no I'm tapping internet from an industrial fibercable
MisterSyntax	they don't suspect a thing , the muggelz
MisterSyntax	cooling the hardware has been more of a problem though
MisterSyntax	xD
rindolf	MisterSyntax: first world problems ;-)
rindolf	under world problems
MisterSyntax	rindolf, indeed haha
MisterSyntax	yeah it's a real 'hell'
MisterSyntax	i even have a muggle-zoo
MisterSyntax	great fun for the children
MisterSyntax	they can interact with primates
MisterSyntax	my cat just jumped on my lap and i felt like a true evil genius
MisterSyntax	http://prettycleverfilms.com/files/2013/05/4_blofelds_cat_many.jpg
rindolf	MisterSyntax: heh.
rindolf	MisterSyntax: I'm reminded of the film Bolt.
MisterSyntax	haha rindolf
rindolf	MisterSyntax: did you watch it?
MisterSyntax	yes
rindolf	MisterSyntax: nice.
MisterSyntax	rindolf, i had to, my sisters' kids wanted to watch it whilst i was supervising
MisterSyntax	and i like to act like a child when watching movies or playing with toys so it was quite fun xD
MisterSyntax	even built them a mayan pyramid afterwards made out of duplo lol
MisterSyntax	well mayan
MisterSyntax	http://www.crystalinks.com/pyramidelcastillo.jpg << that kind
MisterSyntax	no clue if its mayan
rindolf	MisterSyntax: nice.
MisterSyntax	they were amazed and kept it for months, even built a whole city around it themselves
rindolf	MisterSyntax: I think it is.
MisterSyntax	yeah rindolf i think as well but ain't sure xD
rindolf	MisterSyntax: the Mayan Pyramids look nicer than the Egyptian ones IMO.
MisterSyntax	rindolf, agreed.
MisterSyntax	here have another demon..
* MisterSyntax	points at demon nr.4
* rindolf	pets demon No. 4
MisterSyntax	beware though, no. 4 has a tendency to bite

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2016-08-30

macOS

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rindolf	Apparently, Apple has decided to rename Mac OS X/OS X into "macOS".
rindolf	Marketing people are crazy.
pyon	ikr
exio4	I wanna study marketing
ConceptThoughts	?
exio4	random comments
ConceptThoughts	a good programmer should care less about marketing.. hire a rep
exio4	I am no programmer
ConceptThoughts	your no?
ConceptThoughts	what are you doing in here then
exio4	programming for money is so boring
exio4	ConceptThoughts: it is a nice chat
ConceptThoughts	;o;
ConceptThoughts	lol
exio4	first two words in the topic, Community Chat
ConceptThoughts	yes but that follow Programming implying its a programming community chat
exio4	it is a / not and and
exio4	an and*
ConceptThoughts	what's that mean
pyon	rindolf: i have no idea how marketing people think... what exactly is going on in their heads when they determine that renaming os x to macOS might increase sales or whatever apple is trying to achieve
pyon	rindolf: perhaps it's for consistency with iOS?
exio4	nvm
exio4	pyon: I think they want to add curiosity
exio4	"what changed?"
exio4	exploit I mean
pyon	exio4: no it can't be just that
exio4	I am quite tired :(
rindolf	pyon: see https://github.com/sindresorhus/awesome/pull/758#issuecomment-245765996
pyon	rindolf: checking
pyon	ah so it was as i was thinking
pyon	OK that makes sense
rindolf	exio4: I feel that there's good marketing and there's bad marketing.
rindolf	exio4: what is what is a matter of a lot of disagreement.
pyon	exio4: nobody would be crazy enough to change the name of a core product just to make people wonder what happened
rindolf	pyon: I hope that Apple's marketing department will die in a macFlame™!
rindolf	;-)
pyon	rindolf: lol
pyon	rindolf: why does it particularly annoy you that apple renamed their product? :-O
pyon	s/product/desktop os/
rindolf	pyon: well, I've seen many people misspell "Mac OS X" as "MacOSX" / "macOSX" / "macosx" / "macosX" / etc. and been trying to get them to use the correct spelling and capitalisation and now it's different and lamer.
SlashLife	Isn't it called iOS now?
pyon	rindolf: lol
SlashLife	Or is that only for mobile devices?
pyon	rindolf: i don't think it's terribly important if people spell it correctly
bacon1989	no, that's iMobile, they renamed that yesterday in the conf
SlashLife	Seriously?
pyon	rindolf: it's not a real English word, it's just a product name - the only ones who should be worried about properly spelling its name are apple themselves
rindolf	SlashLife: iOS is different than Mac OS X.
rindolf	pyon: I've invented a pun on Mac OS X - "Mac O'Sucks"
rindolf	it's not too funny though.
pyon	rindolf: lol
pyon	rindolf: i always thought “x” was meant to be pronounced “ten”
rindolf	pyon: maybe, but no one pronounces it that way.
rindolf	pyon: again - people have crazy marketing ideas.
rindolf	s/crazy/unrealistic/
pyon	rindolf: heh
rindolf	oh well, I'm off to sleep.
pyon	rindolf: gn
rindolf	pyon: heh, thanks
rindolf	bye all
rindolf	Good macNight!
pyon	lol

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	macOS without the X still sux
Published	2016-09-09

“Demons upon thee, Apple marketing department!”

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rindolf	MisterSyntax: can you unleash some of your demons on Apple's marketing department?
MisterSyntax	rindolf, sure no problem, what region?
rindolf	MisterSyntax: Cupertino.
rindolf	if that's how it's spelled.
* MisterSyntax	sends over his "Elite Demons" legion towards Cupertino
rindolf	I want a macSacare!
MisterSyntax	they might take a while to arrive
MisterSyntax	hahaha macsacare xD
rindolf	MisterSyntax: :-)
MisterSyntax	rindolf, but once they arrive they will inhabit their electronics and falsify their databases
MisterSyntax	also there's one demon among them that will try to wiki-leak things
rindolf	MisterSyntax: heh, heh.
rindolf	MisterSyntax: you have a good selection of demons.
MisterSyntax	rindolf, thanks, I've trained them myself :) you wouldn't believe how stupid they used to be.. they'd just go around killing without a plan and end up getting killed by them hunters
rindolf	MisterSyntax: sounds like you're a good teacher to these demons.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	“I want a macSacare!”
Published	2016-09-11

Windows UpHate

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rindolf	ConceptThoughts: did you know that Microsoft is the organisation with the most open source pull-requests on GitHub? They appear to be taking open source seriously.
password2	rindolf, seriously?
velco	password2, https://octoverse.github.com/
rindolf	password2: see https://octoverse.github.com/
password2	wow
password2	soon geeks will need to find new reasons to hate MS
rindolf	password2: well, it's possible other companies have more open source code, but MS Received the most pull-reqs.
password2	well just that they are showing up on the radar is already amazing
rindolf	password2: heh, I'm trying not to expend too much energy hating companies.
password2	rindolf, if only more people were like you
rindolf	password2: or people for that matter.
rindolf	password2: heh.
password2	many many people simply use Linux because they dislike Microsoft
password2	And defining yourself by what you hate is a slippery slope
rindolf	password2: well, I use Linux because I like it better, and feel more productive in it, and because Windows Update is hatefully (!) slow.
rindolf	password2: see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Windows-Update/
password2	yeah , I've read that
password2	:D
password2	i just disable my windows update
rindolf	password2: heh.
password2	solves 99% of my issues
rindolf	password2: you got 1 problem but Windows Update ain't 99 of them.
njcomsec	i hate windows update
password2	why?
njcomsec	seems to break stuff
Rounin	It's recently caused people to miss out on large parts of their exams
njcomsec	at least on my computer
Rounin	Since they were answering them on Windows computers
njcomsec	but it might also be something to do with acer and McAfee
Rounin	That of course decided to reboot for 1,5 hours during the exams
njcomsec	though the windows update is definitely the catalyst
rindolf	Rounin: "Windows Update ate my homework!"
Rounin	rindolf: Brrr!
password2	Rounin, Well
password2	one would wonder why the people would set the settings on those pc to auto update
password2	i blame the people using it
Rounin	password2: They wouldn't... Windows set those settings
password2	Rounin, you can change them
Rounin	password2: That's not what we're discussing
njcomsec	i believe windows updates are forced with win 10
password2	why not?
Rounin	password2: If someone robs you, you can also choose to get shot if you so desire
Rounin	That doesn't mean it's your choice to get robbed
njcomsec	you can disable them but i think it can cause problems
password2	its seems like a cheap shot at windows
password2	yeah
Rounin	No, it doesn't
Rounin	It doesn't seem like that at all
password2	but no one was hurt
password2	and no one plans on being robbed
Rounin	No one plans on having their exam ruined by Windows Update either, as far as I know
password2	idk why you bothered with that comparison
rindolf	For the life of me I cannot understand why Windows Update takes a while to do its thing before the system shutdown.
password2	rindolf idk
password2	BTW Rounin if you want to blame default setting on windows , you apparently have very little experience with Linux
password2	because that's like half the trouble with Linux
Rounin	password2: That's not true either... I don't apparently have very little experience with Linux

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2016-09-18

Should I use BitKeeper or GitHub?

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fanfan	When should I use BitKeeper (peer-to-peer) and when should I use GitHub (client-server) for my software project?
yawkat	fanfan: git is distributed
rindolf	fanfan: why do you want to use BitKeeper?
rindolf	fanfan: and git is distributed too.
fanfan	rindolf, I didn't understand.
rindolf	fanfan: git is peer-to-peer - just like BitKeeper.
fanfan	rindolf, so when should I use Git and when should I use GitHub?
rindolf	fanfan: there are other git services aside from GitHub and you can set up one of your own.
rindolf	fanfan: you normally use git to interact with GitHub.
fanfan	rindolf, I don't really know what should I do, can please guide me.
rindolf	fanfan: use GitHub if you like it - if not - use a different git service provider.
fanfan	rindolf, well I choose GitHub because there are already millions of people using it, so it seems trustworthy.
baum	fanfan: same for bitbucket and others
fanfan	baum, I will just use GitHub before I get crazy in all these options.
baum	fanfan: you could also just use git
rindolf	fanfan: it seems like a good choice at the moment.
rindolf	baum: we told him that.
fanfan	baum, So Git is better than BitKeeper?
catbadger	git is better than everything
rindolf	baum: this seems like one of those 'Should I use jQuery or JavaScript?' questions.
baum	rindolf: oh i see, didn't read up. and yes it does
fanfan	rindolf, I get it now, I people use GitHub because they don't have a server or online-storage, and they don't want to. But I have a server so I can just use BitKeeper.
rindolf	fanfan: well, BitKeeper was made open source only relatively recently, which caused git (and previously other FOSS VCSes) to become popular instead.
rindolf	fanfan: why do you want to use bitkeeper?
fanfan	rindolf, because 15 years of development
rindolf	fanfan: you can set up a git service on your server as well.
fanfan	rindolf, and is supported by a big company
rindolf	fanfan: well, git probably had more contributors.
rindolf	fanfan: which big company supports BK?
fanfan	rindolf, just please tell me, for god's sake, should I use GitHub or Git?
baum	fanfan: if you are judging a source control solution by its company and years of existence maybe check out Visual SourceSafe :)
rindolf	fanfan: I suggest you use git and you can opt to use GitHub as well.
rindolf	baum: heh, I laughed-out-loud from that comment.
rindolf	baum: can I tweet it?
fanfan	rindolf, is GitHub best of its kind?
baum	rindolf: go for it :)
mpetch	used PVCS in an enterprise environment for many years with Nortel/BNR
rindolf	baum: thanks!
fanfan	okay guys, I will just use GitHub, before I get crAZY, now everyone shut up.
rindolf	fanfan: great.
mpetch	you sure you want to use github?
rindolf	mpetch: be careful or you'll make him be like the child monster who wants to be "there" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m-kbBamg_U
mpetch	haha
rindolf	mpetch: :-)

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Bit by the Git Hub
Published	2016-10-06

rindolf’s bad C code

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rindolf	In fc-solve's C source code I have 2,738 "const"s vs. 1,521 "if"s
rindolf	and I have 1,344 "int"s
imode	that's 5,376 bytes!
Felishia	rindolf, D:
Felishia	how can you have 0,738 of a constant?
rindolf	Felishia: 2,738 consts
rindolf	Felishia: over 2 thousand
rindolf	Felishia: it's not a decimal dot
Felishia	but you put a comma there
Felishia	it's a decimal comma
rindolf	Felishia: yes, for the thousands
Felishia	no for the thousands it's a dot
rindolf	Felishia: no, not in English.
rindolf	or in Hebrew
Felishia	D: wat
schally	I have 0.738 of a const
schally	because it only appears with certain typedefs
rindolf	shakalaka: good for you!
schally	or #defines rather
rindolf	schally: can I borrow 0.002 of a const?
schally	rindolf: go ahead
rindolf	schally: thanks!
rindolf	Hmmm... I have 1,156 "endif"s - lots of preprocessor stuff. :-(
rindolf	and I have 1,102 "instance"s
Felishia	rindolf, what a bad code! ewwww!
Felishia	such a bad C grammar
rindolf	I have 864 "void"s
rindolf	Felishia: only 1,145 "endif"s now after I extracted a macro
rindolf	1,140 "endif"s now
rindolf	Felishia: 1,128 "endif"s now!
Felishia	rindolf, you gotta bring it down to 2 D:
rindolf	Felishia: heh.
Felishia	if windows... if unix...
rindolf	Felishia: I have #ifdef _cplusplus extern "C" { #endif on every header
rindolf	45 files changed, 1904 insertions(+), 2306 deletions(-)
rindolf	====> what a day
Felishia	rindolf, what you only commit once a day
rindolf	Felishia: no.
rindolf	Felishia: this is git diff --stat

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The end of the endifs is not so near
Published	2016-11-02

You’ve got the touch

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* bizarrefish	was in Malaysia last year :D
bizarrefish	It's quite nice
bizarrefish	Very friendly people
differentMonster	bizarrefish : what about you ? well Malaysia is hot as hell.
bizarrefish	I am in the UK, which is not hot
bizarrefish	Malaysia was for a work trip
bizarrefish	Was pretty cool
bizarrefish	I think it's cool how Malaysian children stared at me
bizarrefish	(I'm 6'4 and white)
bizarrefish	Chinese people stare as well. I like that they find me so interesting.
Yuken	bizarrefish, if a Japanese guy passed through a rural African village where everyone is black and 6'+
Yuken	he'd probably be stared at as well! :p
bizarrefish	heh
differentMonster	bizarrefish : XD we will find you interesting for sure ~
bizarrefish	6ft4in is quite tall, even in the UK. It's a shame nobody feels like they can stare
bizarrefish	heh
differentMonster	bizarrefish :cause you be different if you don't wear or sound like we do.
Yuken	bizarrefish, what if they have a height fetish and start staring at you ominously?
Yuken	:^)
bizarrefish	When I go to very different countries, I just worry that I might accidentally be rude.
Myrl-saki	bizarrefish: your rude
bizarrefish	Yuken: Then let them stare :) I'm happy for them to. Just no touchy :D
bizarrefish	Myrl-saki: I'm sorry ;.;
* Yuken	slowly moves to the UK and stalks bizarrefish then.
bizarrefish	Myrl-saki: You can touch me if that makes it okay again
Myrl-saki	bizarrefish: your lewd
* rindolf	touches bizarrefish
bizarrefish	Ah
differentMonster	bizarrefish : like no touching , you break it you buy it XD
rindolf	using the unix touch command
bizarrefish	Why would you want to stalk a British person? We don't even have health insurance
bizarrefish	touch rindolf
bizarrefish	sudo touch rindolf
rindolf	bizarrefish: touchée!
bizarrefish	while true; do touch rindolf; done
rindolf	bizarrefish: you are not in the sudoers list
Yuken	This incident has been reported.
Myrl-saki	lol
* bizarrefish	removes HDD, plugs into other computer, chroot, touch rindolf
rindolf	bizarrefish: heh, you're insistent
rindolf	bizarrefish: what if the partitions are encrypted?
bizarrefish	rindolf: I don't have to touch you in your home directory. I can touch you anywhere. In multiple places.
bizarrefish	cd /tmp; touch rindolf
rindolf	bizarrefish: that's the RealRindolf™!
rindolf	bizarrefish: I only have one place in the file system.
rindolf	OneTruePath™!
bizarrefish	MakeTmpGreatAgain(TM)!
rindolf	bizarrefish: nice
rindolf	bizarrefish: heh
rindolf	bizarrefish: tmp was never great!

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2016-11-21

What is "NP-complete"?

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rindolf	Rashad: generalised Freecell was shown to be NP-complete
Rashad	NP-complete means?
rindolf	Rashad: here?
Rashad	Yup.
Rashad	Just came back.
rindolf	Rashad: did you read about NP-completeness?
Rashad	Nope.
Rashad	What is it?
rindolf	Rashad: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NP-completeness
Rashad	Too much math.
Rashad	On wikipedia.
rindolf	Rashad: see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=memoir-from-a-Physics-lesson-in-the-9th-grade
Rashad	rindolf: Sometimes formality can make things more complex than they really are.
rindolf	Rashad: true
Rashad	rindolf: Can you give me a simple introduction?
rindolf	Rashad: well, do you know what polynomial time is?
Rashad	No.
rindolf	Rashad: hmmm...
Rashad	I know what a polynomial is.
Rashad	Is this related to the BigO notation?
rindolf	Rashad: yes.
rindolf	Rashad: polynomial time is O(P(N)) where P(N) is a polynomial of N
Rashad	OK.
Rashad	I am trying to think of an example..
sbrg	two nested loops
rindolf	Rashad: so it can be O(n^2) or O(n) or O(nlog(n)) or even O(n*100)
Rashad	Aha.
Rashad	What is 'n'? Number of operations?
Rashad	Umm.
Rashad	Probably not.
rindolf	Rashad: the length of the input
Rashad	Yeah that makes sense.
rindolf	Rashad: OK.
Rashad	I remember stuff about search algorithms.
Rashad	n is the number of entries in an array, for example.
sbrg	yep
rindolf	Rashad: now, some problems' verification algorithm is polynomial and these problems are called "NP"
Rashad	Verification algorithm?
rindolf	Rashad: verification means you verify that the solution is correct after given one.
Rashad	Aha.
sbrg	Rashad: for example, if I give you a list and tell you that it's sorted, you can verify in polynomial time that it is correct
sbrg	by simply checking each pair of elements
Rashad	A solution in freecell is a series of moves?
rindolf	Rashad: yes
Rashad	sbrg: I see.
Rashad	OK so NP complete means?
rindolf	Rashad: now, some problems are NP-hard which means that each of them can be used to solve any problem in NP after a polynomial transformation.
sbrg	and NP complete are problems which are both in NP and NP-hard
rindolf	Rashad: yes, what sbrg said,
sbrg	so, NP: a problem that, when given a solution, you can verify that it is correct in polynomial time
sbrg	NP-hard: a class of problems that can be converted to each other
Rashad	OK.
Rashad	OK.
Rashad	So NP-hard does not imply NP?
rindolf	Rashad: no, not necessarily
kadoban	No, problems that are harder than NP are in NP-hard too
Rashad	Ahhh
Rashad	Now that makes sense.
Rashad	at least NP hard
rindolf	Rashad: for instance, the Halting Problem is NP hard.
Rashad	OK now everything is in place for me.
rindolf	Rashad: good
kadoban	It gets complicated because we don't know the actual hard relationships between many of the complexity classes, like we don't actually know if P = NP or if there are problems in NP that aren't in P. Which leads to the famous question you've likely heard of.
Rashad	But I am interested by how you can map NP-hard problems from one to the other.
rindolf	Rashad: there's a 1 million USD prize for proving whether P is NP or not,
Rashad	kadoban: It got pretty philosophical fast :P
Rashad	P = ?
rindolf	Rashad: P is the class of polynomial problems
kadoban	P, the complexity class above, which is problems you can solve in polynomial time on a deterministic turing machine.
Rashad	I am a bit confused now..
kadoban	NP, problems you can verify solutions to in polynomial time on a deterministic turing machine.
Rashad	OK so NP is about verification, P is about solving. Correct?
rindolf	Rashad: well yes, but you often want to find good solutions for NP problems
Rashad	What do you mean?
kadoban	Correct, though that's really just a definition used for picking which complexity class. In general we're still interested in getting the answer to problems in NP
Rashad	Ah.
sbrg	Rashad: P is the class of problems that can be solved in polynomial time. NP is the class of problems whose solution can be verified in polynomial time.
Rashad	So the concern is: Can you find a solution to NP problems faster than you can verify the given solution?
sbrg	Rashad: Assuming you mean "faster or as fast", well.. you just asked whether P = NP
Rashad	I see.
sbrg	if you have an answer to that question, someone will give you a million dollars
Rashad	But how is that not a philosophical question, though?
Rashad	Let me rephrase that.
kadoban	It depends, what's a "philosophical question"?
sbrg	kadoban: that is ^
sbrg	lol
Rashad	Wouldn't a solution imply a way to verify it?
kadoban	But if you're asking if it has practical consequences, it does, potentially.
sbrg	Rashad: Well, take sudoku as an example
Rashad	OK!
sbrg	If I give you a solved sudoku, how long would it take for you to verify it?
Rashad	kadoban: What kind of consequences?
sbrg	it's the same every time. you just make sure that 1 to 9 appears in all rows, columns and boxes
Rashad	sbrg: OK
sbrg	however, does seeing the solution tell you how you solve it?
sbrg	How as in, which steps
Rashad	OK that's exactly what I am asking.
kadoban	Rashad: For example if P = NP, then quite a lot of cryptography isn't very well founded. That would mean there were "quick" (in one way of speaking) algorithms to solve hard problems that crypto relies on, such as discrete logarithm and integer factorization.
Rashad	How do you get an answer that is not completely random that in the same process of figuring it out you are unable to replicate the same logic into how you verify it?
Rashad	And we're still talking about computers here so I am not sure if Newton's apple aha moment counts...
Gamah	Rashad: sometimes it's easier to assert the validity a solution (P) than it is to explain it (NP)
Gamah	or... those reversed
Gamah	i forget.
sbrg	Rashad: well, how easy is it to verify a sudoku? it's very easy. it's the same steps every time. however, does that knowledge of the rules of the game allow you to also solve the puzzle in an equal number of moves it took you to verify it?
Rashad	sbrg: The solution however is ultimately guided by the rules of verification.
Gamah	sbrg: poorly formed... technically speaking it can be easier to solve some given sudoku puzzles than it is to verify they are solved
Rashad	Unless it is a complete shot in the dark.
sbrg	Gamah: and there are lists that are already sorted. that doesn't change the lower bound for sorting. what's your point?
sbrg	Rashad: Yes, it is. so one would think that it would be possible
sbrg	and as Gamah pointed out, some sudokus are very easy to solve, while others are much harder
Gamah	Rashad: no p
Gamah	:P
sbrg	the question is whether you can give an algorithm that guarantees that you can solve every sudoku within some time limit(in terms of the size of the input) that performs no more steps than you would verifying a sudoku
Gamah	sbrg: I'm saying you can't apply the act of solving and the act of verifying a "solved" sudoku to p=np because in the space of sudoku, either task could be on either side of the equation
Gamah	define "steps"
Gamah	because it always takes less steps to solve than verify... from some perspective
Rashad	rindolf: So solitaire is O(n)?
sbrg	Gamah: you don't seem to understand complexity theory. we're talking about sudokus in general. I can verify any sudoku in some bounded polynomial time
Rashad	Ah sorry, I meant verifying a solitaire solution is O(n)*.
Gamah	you can also solve any sudoku
sbrg	the question is whether I can somehow use the rules of verification to help me create a solution in at most as much time as it would take me to verify it. i.e. P vs NP
workmad3	iirc, NP-complete problems are ones where verifying a solution is polynomial time, but calculating a solution is non-polynomial
rindolf	Rashad: there are many variants of card solitaire
Gamah	sbrg: but the number of sudoku permutations and solutions is not unbound...
rindolf	Rashad: generalised Freecell is NP-complete
rindolf	Rashad: which assumes you have n ranks of cards instead of 13 (ace-to-king)
sbrg	Gamah: for a 9x9 sudoku, no, obviously not. but we are talking about sudoku in general
Gamah	hmm.
sbrg	Rashad: at any rate, the point is that we just don't know whether we can use the information that lets us verify solutions in polynomial time to also construct solutions in polynomial time
Gamah	i feel like sudoku is still a search problem (IE: rainbow table)
Gamah	and not really applicable
workmad3	Gamah: and how long would it take you to compute that rainbow table?
sbrg	by your logic, I can solve any problem that way.
sbrg	i can just create a database of all sorted lists.
Gamah	sure...
sbrg	.. just like i can create a database of all sudokus. if we fix n, then yes, it is bounded and you can just solve it in constant time.
kadoban	sbrg: Well, not really, you still have lookup time.
kadoban	Oh, for fixed n I guess that doesn't matter.
sbrg	constant time where a unit is defined to be the lookup time
sbrg	there you go!
Gamah	workmad3: that would depend on how well i could optimize the verification algo
sbrg	it's all about context
workmad3	sbrg: well, you can solve it in constant time, assuming the existence of an oracle :)
Gamah	the $1m question just says "a computer" and "in polynomial time"
Gamah	it doesn't say i can't spend years precomputing the search space
Gamah	:)
sbrg	i don't think you understand what P vs NP means
workmad3	Gamah: assuming the existence of an oracle is generally not classed as a solution to P vs NP
Gamah	i thought the smiley implied i was being pedantic
workmad3	Gamah: otherwise it would have been solved years ago :P
Gamah	workmad3: well i was just going to use oracle DB
Gamah	:)

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2016-11-25

JetBrains’ Products

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Kake_Fisk	Any cool JetBrains programs I should try out except for CLion?
rindolf	Kake_Fisk: I wish JetBrains would have sold and developed one IDE instead of several variations on the same one.
Kake_Fisk	Yeah!
Kake_Fisk	Will probably happen in the future. Visual Studio were also like that at one point if I recall correctly
q_q	am i only the one who thinks pycharm is a heap of shit?
Kake_Fisk	q_q: Well, I couldn't even get pycharm to work
kadoban	q_q: I dunno, everyone seems to love it. Never tried it.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2017-01-31

Whose fault is it?

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sir_galahad_ad	o/
vdamewood	sir_galahad_ad: \o
alvanson	\o/
rindolf	sir_galahad_ad: hi.
alvanson	\o/ \|v\| o= /o\
rindolf	sir_galahad_ad: sup?
sir_galahad_ad	hi rindolf not much is up, working on learning mysql
rindolf	sir_galahad_ad: ah
rindolf	sir_galahad_ad: I'm still feeling ill
rindolf	sir_galahad_ad: well, yesterday and the day before were better
sir_galahad_ad	I'm sorry rindolf :(
rindolf	sir_galahad_ad: thanks!
rindolf	sir_galahad_ad: it's most likely not your fault
sir_galahad_ad	butterflies...
vdamewood	rindolf: I've been secretly adding arsenic to your coffee. Is that why you're sick?
rindolf	vdamewood: :-) heh , I don't drink coffee
rindolf	vdamewood: perhaps you also added that coffee with arsenic to my water
vdamewood	Then whose coffee was it?

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2017-02-08

Unforgivable

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ChrisWarrick	ks
ChrisWarrick	sorry, wrong tab
rindolf	ChrisWarrick: I can never forgive you for using the wrong tab! ;-) J/K - everything's cool.
FMan	however, there is a wrong tab tax payable to me
ChrisWarrick	rindolf: (arguably, wrong machine/screen/app/everything, because that went to irssi on screen 1 instead of the windows VM on screen 2)
rindolf	FMan: heh
rindolf	ChrisWarrick: you will go to hell for using the wrong window!
rindolf	ChrisWarrick: no redemption for you!
Zuu	rindolf, you mean, no Christmas presents?
rindolf	Zuu: no Chanukkah coins either!
Zuu	Ohnoes! :O
* rindolf	is away
Zuu	He's hiding all the Chanukkah coins, i just know it!

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2017-02-26

Blaming everyone

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Zuu_	My monitor is noisy!
* Zuu_	blames all of you
rindolf	Zuu_: guilty as charged! I made your monitor noisy because I hate you
Zuu_	Arrrr shakes fist at Evil rindolf
rindolf	Zuu_: it was a late EvilChristmas present
* Zuu_	wraps it back up, and sends it back to Santa :P

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2017-03-10

Putting the U in "FAQ"

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rindolf	airking_: hi, see https://github.com/shlomif/Freenode-programming-channel-FAQ/blob/master/FAQ_with_ToC__generated.md#i-tried-joining-a-different-channel-for-help-but-i-could-not---why
vdamewood	I wish we called them Frequently Uttered Questions instead of Asked.
rindolf	vdamewood: FUQ?
rindolf	I don't give a FUQ
vdamewood	rindolf: FUQ off.
rindolf	vdamewood: :-)
vdamewood	Frequent utterances concerning knowledge.
rindolf	vdamewood: heh
vdamewood	beaky: Read the FUQing manual?
wedr	Frequently unwanted common knowledge.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2017-06-25

Biological Garbage Collection

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jkbbwr	I'm aiming to implement a chunk of a runtime and maybe a garbage collector and then finish the emitter to spit out QBE
FManTropyx	my apartment badly needs garbage collection (hi, BTW)
liste	FManTropyx: no-op garbage collector's an option :)
adsc	you could add some rats, they take care of the organic garbage
adsc	or rather, they compound multiple types of organic garbage into a single type
workmad3	adsc: and then add some cats to convert the rat problem into an extra type?
adsc	which rat problem?
workmad3	adsc: the rat problem caused by introducing rats to solve your garbage problem :P
adsc	rats are a problem?
adsc	hmmm
adsc	yes, it seems one cat per 5 rats should solve any "rat problems"
wedr	So, you're saying for those who live near a farm, they need to get 65 cats?
adsc	yes
adsc	although I guess it doesn't scale up linearly
rindolf	heh
adsc	each additional cat probably raises the number of total rats that can be dealt with
adsc	so two cats might be able to deal with more than 10 rats
rindolf	poor rats
adsc	also you should make sure the cats are neutered, or you will soon have to introduce dogs to solve a cat problem
wedr	Fibonacci Sequence for cats -> rats problem.
wedr	5 cats -> 60+ rats killed.
wedr	Wait, I'm wrong, get 15 cats.
adsc	but it seems he has to deal with over 300 rats
wedr	65 cats it is.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2017-06-25

Upgrading

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nickname95	https://dan-ball.jp/en/javagame/rockets/ , this website has a game, i would like to know how it was made, what technologies etc, its pretty old
nickname95	it says html5 and Java applet
nickname95	so if its in html5/js does that mean that i can see the source code of the game ?
* rindolf	upgrades nickname95 to nickname98
* VicMackey	upgrades nickname98 to nicknameNT
rindolf	VicMackey: heh
* vdamewood	upgrades nickname98 to nickname98SE
VicMackey	Shoot.
rindolf	vdamewood: heh
vdamewood	VicMackey: Back in the Windows 9x and NT4 days, Windows to Windows NT wasn't exactly a proper upgrade.
VicMackey	Windows to Windows is usually never a proper upgrade
VicMackey	I also have to say that I jumped from 98 to Xp
Batholith	Yeah, you can't really upgrade from Windows. Windows to Linux/Mac would be a terrible downgrade.
vdamewood	Well, versions of Windows NT prior to XP were missing some things that made Windows not-NT more usable at home, I think.
rindolf	vdamewood: VicMackey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKy9fV_zX_o
VicMackey	rindolf how embarrassing
rindolf	VicMackey: :-)
rindolf	VicMackey: it was the start of a brave new era!
VicMackey	That's when he decided he had to quit being the CEO of that company
VicMackey	And retire

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Let me upgrade ya
Published	2017-07-14

Pluralism

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vdamewood	GeDaMo: So, I, for example, showed them code for a DFA I wrote and explained how DFA's work.
bananaJoe	DFA? Department of Foreign Affairs?
rindolf	bananaJoe: deterministic finite automata
vdamewood	automaton
vdamewood	(automata is plural, automaton is singular)
rindolf	your mom is plural. ;-)
rindolf	J/K
* bananaJoe	whistles in amazement!
bananaJoe	that's some abbreviation!
bananaJoe	automama :P

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2017-07-15

Progressive Web Applications

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Zajt	Hello! Is this UML diagram https://go.gliffy.com/go/share/sm4frpobsubifu6j6jv8 a correct example of the factory method design pattern?
rindolf	Zajt: is this homework?
Zajt	rindolf kind of, it's from school work but the purpose is not to make a UML diagram. I just try to explain the pattern by making this figure, but needs to be sure that it's correct so I don't miss anything in it
rindolf	Zajt: ah
rindolf	Zajt: it figures that it is schoolwork
SPEEDRAC1ST	UML's main purpose is to keep CS profs employed and students busy
rindolf	SPEEDRAC1ST: heh
iawc	Though the profs still suffer a concussion when doing both at the same time.
Zajt	rindolf what do you mean?
rindolf	Zajt: UML and Design Patterns are not oof much interest elsewhere
SPEEDRAC1ST	design patterns became a buzzword recently
SPEEDRAC1ST	also, "anti-pattern"
Zajt	yeah but did you read what I wrote above? I do it for a report in school so I have not an exercise that says "Write this UML-diagram", but I have done it myself just to illustrate the problem. But I want to make sure it's correct what I have done
Groogy	design patterns and anti-pattern are super old buzzwords
Groogy	what do you mean recently
Groogy	the last 30 years?
SPEEDRAC1ST	recently there was a resurgence of those
Groogy	lol okay
SPEEDRAC1ST	"we're kewl, we use JavaScript design patterns"
Groogy	Designu-patteru-jutsu
SPEEDRAC1ST	are you a pattern-ninja?
Groogy	HAI!
SPEEDRAC1ST	then join our innovative revolutionary startup which has lots of hype and VC monies
Groogy	Actually I think it is good to read about design patterns and anti-patterns, to just have in back of your mind. But to actively try and "apply" the "molds" is not really the intent of it
SPEEDRAC1ST	some of those are neat. the ones that are about complexity management, and organization
SPEEDRAC1ST	but most are barely necessary
SPEEDRAC1ST	but overall, WTF would one need design patterns to make yet another web app?
rindolf	SPEEDRAC1ST: is it a disruptive startup?
SPEEDRAC1ST	it's about to disrupt at least 3 industries
rindolf	SPEEDRAC1ST: heh
rockman37	Has anyone made a webapp for making webapps yet?
bookworm	WordPress
rockman37	Hah.
Groogy	but from a glance it looks like you have what I would expect out of a factory
SPEEDRAC1ST	AI can drive cars, but can't make web apps yet
rockman37	My friend's friend is apparently working on a mobile app for making mobile apps.
rockman37	(Which my friend plans to use to make a mobile app.)
PlanckWalk	There are tons of apps for making apps
SPEEDRAC1ST	PlanckWalk: none of them are functional, since an emulator is required to run one
SPEEDRAC1ST	also, they don't solve the distribution problem
merijn	Hell, people can't even make decent apps yet...
SPEEDRAC1ST	define decent
SPEEDRAC1ST	Instagram and Snapchat are totally decent for uploading food pics and duckface pics
merijn	SPEEDRAC1ST: They're several gigabytes larger than they should be
ongy	snapchat? isn't that exclusively for sexting?
ongy	you have phone apps that are multiple gigabytes?
SPEEDRAC1ST	merijn: so is all software these days, except for embedded
SPEEDRAC1ST	ongy: if you include the SDK, yes
merijn	ongy: I'd like to introduce you to my friend, the hyperbole :)
SPEEDRAC1ST	mobile apps themselves are 100s of MB
rockman37	Which is still huge for a program.
rts-sander	these apps take hundreds of terabytes to display a single button!
rindolf	merijn: are they a boy or a girl? ;)
rockman37	fuck buttons
Groogy	well something I guess? I don't really know the task you are having from your teacher
merijn	rts-sander: Ah, I see you too have downloaded slack?
merijn	rindolf: Probably a boy, hyperbole is constantly 1-upping people ;)
SPEEDRAC1ST	Groogy: Zajt: http://www.developermemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/java-problem-factory.jpg
rindolf	merijn: :)
rockman37	SPEEDRAC1ST: rofl
rindolf	SPEEDRAC1ST: heh, still funny
rts-sander	hahaha Java is verbose hahahaha
merijn	rts-sander: I refuse to download atrocities that spend 500+MB memory just to run IRC >.>
rockman37	I refuse to download atrocities full stop.
merijn	irssi is taking 8MB after running for, like, 2 weeks straight in 15 channels...
rts-sander	lightweight software is the best!
SPEEDRAC1ST	merijn: Firefox sometimes takes 2+GB of RAM
rts-sander	lets port it all to web applications
xssposed	what about weechat
ongy	I had chrome at >3G. fun times
xssposed	i use it a lot
xssposed	its nice
SPEEDRAC1ST	Facebook tab sometimes eats 100s of MB running all of the tracking and ad JS code
Groogy	I've had weechat running for more than a mount without restart
Groogy	25mb
SPEEDRAC1ST	rts-sander: heard of progressive web apps?
merijn	ongy: WTF are you doing? Chrome is at, like, 1GB for me with 40 or so tabs open in 4 windows
Batholith	Chrome likes to eat RAM, that is known
Zajt	haha SPEEDRAC1ST
rindolf	here kwin_x11 consumes more RAM than firefox - no idea why
xssposed	there's an extension that counteracts Chrome's hunger for RAM. i forget the name of it, but it saves 90%
merijn	Chrome's memory usage is increased a bit by the fact that it uses 1 process per tab, but it's not that drastic. Most of the gross memory usage that people blame on Chrome is just really "websites being shitty in the 2010s"
rockman37	rindolf: Is it huge, or is Firefox small?
xssposed	has my browser running faster
rindolf	rockman37: well, i recently restarted ff
rockman37	rindolf: Ah.
rindolf	xssposed: heh, nice nickname
SPEEDRAC1ST	websites also have gotten a lot fatter
SPEEDRAC1ST	probably due to ads
rockman37	We should stop feeding them or something.
xssposed	rindolf: heh, ty
* rindolf	recently reduced the HTML of his site
rindolf	using https://github.com/kangax/html-minifier
SPEEDRAC1ST	also, JS frameworks and libs are 100+K LoC
rindolf	SPEEDRAC1ST: are they webscale?
SPEEDRAC1ST	maybe. they're responsive for sure
rindolf	http://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/slash-dev-null_is_WebScale/
SPEEDRAC1ST	webscale is usually said about databases
rindolf	SPEEDRAC1ST: both responsive and progressive? Impossibru
rindolf	you can only have at most 1
SPEEDRAC1ST	progressive is the new buzzword, gotta replace them to keep the hype alive
merijn	Man, the one JS keyword that pisses me off the most is "isomorphic", because that's not what isomorphic means, you jackasses
rindolf	SPEEDRAC1ST: are progressive web apps webscale enough?
ongy	I want a /dev/null directory to copy things into...
SPEEDRAC1ST	rindolf: come on. webscale is so 5 years ago :)
rindolf	ongy: use asynchronous writes
okuu	merijn: I edited the “isomorphism” tag on Stack Overflow to explicitly refer to, you know, isomorphisms. :-p
rindolf	SPEEDRAC1ST: heh
merijn	okuu: <3
merijn	ongy: Why?
SPEEDRAC1ST	merijn: is it a reserved keyword?
merijn	SPEEDRAC1ST: No, it's "running the same code on the client as on the server", or some shit
SPEEDRAC1ST	JS's scope pisses me off the most. something as simple as accessing a variable inside foreach is complicated
SPEEDRAC1ST	merijn: oh, you mean buzzword
merijn	s/'s scope//
merijn	SPEEDRAC1ST: Yeah, I haven't had my coffee yet
okuu	SPEEDRAC1ST: But there is an excuse - JavaScript was designed in 10 days!
rindolf	ongy: mount /dev/null as /home
okuu	Errr, designed and implemented.
SPEEDRAC1ST	okuu: because Netscape managers rejected a Scheme-based language. and Self-based one too
okuu	rindolf: Double-checking my solutions to my topology handout.
merijn	I respect Brendan Eichman, because for something designed and implemented in 10 days JS is an impressive feat. But as language...god...fuck it
merijn	okuu: Sounds more fun that figuring out how to formulate my API to work with 3 slightly different libraries that don't have a common API :)
SPEEDRAC1ST	merijn: he proposed to use Scheme, Netscape said "no way". Then he decided to prank them with JS. and now we're paying for it
ongy	rindolf: still a file, so I can't access /home/ongy
ongy	merijn: because I wanted to direct an output directory to /dev/null before and it didn't work
okuu	merijn: At least I'm allowed (in fact, required) to make sense.
merijn	okuu: Trying to make my library play nicely with pipes, conduits, and just regular old forM/mapM...it's...tricky :p
rindolf	SPEEDRAC1ST: it needed to resemble Java
merijn	ongy: I don't quite understand what "copying to /dev/null" is supposed to do, though?
rindolf	merijn: oooh - buzzwords
mniip	but those are words
merijn	rindolf: Hmm?
ongy	merijn: why are you doing that? is it something you want others to use?
rindolf	merijn: "pipes", "conduits"
okuu	rindolf: Haskell plumbing libraries.
merijn	rindolf: They are haskell libraries :)
ongy	merijn: ignore all output that should be written there. sometimes I need that
merijn	ongy: Because I use a mix of pipes and conduits in different projects and I find myself reinventing the same boilerplate
merijn	ongy: And I wanna be done with it once and for all
SPEEDRAC1ST	I've learned about Cloud Haskell a few months ago
SPEEDRAC1ST	I guess they chose the name for marketing reasons
mniip	merijn, that "once and for all" bit sounds unconvincing
okuu	rindolf: Basically, so that you can replace “going crazy debugging” with “doing crazy with types” when doing stream processing. Although the “going crazy debugging” is sometimes not completely avoided.
merijn	mniip: Why?
rindolf	okuu: heh, sounds nasty
okuu	rindolf: Yeah, but it's how Haskellers think.
rindolf	okuu: haskellers are crazy?
okuu	rindolf: Everyone is crazy in their own way.
mniip	I must say haskell debugging sucks
rindolf	okuu: true
iawc	okuu: Haskell is just an API for common structures.
mniip	why does everyone try to mimic imperative program debugging
merijn	okuu: To be fair, conduits/pipes DO make some tasks that are really obnoxious in other languages really nice
iawc	Or is that Ruby?
mniip	functional semantics need to reflect respectively in the debugger
iawc	They seem the same in a way.
rockman37	iawc: Ruby and Haskell?
merijn	rindolf: Basically, they abstract over "I want to stream process data from a pipe/socket/file/whatever in constant memory"
SPEEDRAC1ST	sounds like a job for a queue
okuu	merijn: Then it turns out you want to backtrack, and everything goes to hell.
rindolf	rockman37: reminds me of that guy who said Visual Basic was essentially the same as C++
merijn	okuu: So, don't do that then :)
merijn	okuu: I have plenty of cases where I don't need that
merijn	okuu: If you need backtracking, use STM or something
okuu	merijn: I have to admit, when you don't need to backtrack, pipes and conduit are very nice.
rindolf	rockman37: and then went on to try to create a lossless audio compression that could compress a 40 MB WAV file into 20 kB
rockman37	rindolf: Well, I wouldn't touch either :p
merijn	SPEEDRAC1ST: Yeah, except that all the annoying bits of getting data, putting them in queues, adapting your code to read from them, etc. has all been done for you
rockman37	rindolf: Lossless?
mniip	something something yoctoparsec
rindolf	rockman37: yes
SPEEDRAC1ST	merijn: by the corresponding libraries?
merijn	SPEEDRAC1ST: They're basically a bunch of tools for turning stuff like a parser for a single object you wrote into one that gets fed data on demands and output an object every time it finishes (with further tools to incrementally process those)
merijn	SPEEDRAC1ST: It's not earth-shattering rocket science. It's just a bunch of really convenient tools that I haven't found an adequate replacement for in other languages
okuu	merijn: Probably because they aren't conveniently expressible in other languages. :-p
mniip	everything is possible when you have programmable semicolons
rindolf	rockman37: i think he was the one who was going on about that Planet Source Code thingy
okuu	SPEEDRAC1ST: Think iterators on steroids.
SPEEDRAC1ST	merijn: OK. I haven't had that exactly problem, but if I had I'd use something like Elixir's GenStage
rockman37	Programmable semicolons sound nasty.
rockman37	rindolf: Haven't heard of that.
mniip	rockman37, ish, perl does that all the time
rockman37	"4.3 million lines of source code examples and apps to build from." Hmm...
rockman37	mniip: Interesting.
iawc	howdy do dat?
mniip	anyway, I remotely remember someone saying that monads (their do-block syntax specifically) are just programmable semicolons
rindolf	rockman37: under a contradictory licence
rockman37	rindolf: Serves users right, I say.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2017-09-25

SQL interfaces

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AbleBacon	mpDrive->getLoc().list[i]->stats.getVal()->val; sometimes i wish object oriented programming was never invented
GeDaMo	Only sometimes? :P
rindolf	AbleBacon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Demeter
AbleBacon	oh my god this Law of Demeter is exactly the opposite of what we're doing
patientplatypus	does anyone know how to programmatically create a subtable in postgres?
rindolf	patientplatypus: not off hand
rindolf	patientplatypus: is there an sql syntax for that?
rindolf	AbleBacon: heh
GeDaMo	Would a subtable be like a view?
patientplatypus	errr....
patientplatypus	i want to basically make a tree of tables
patientplatypus	like a json object
rindolf	patientplatypus: sound like it would stand against the normalisation rules
AbleBacon	what urge would possess you to make something as evil as a tree of tables?
AbleBacon	i understand the desire to do something to see if it can be done, but us mortals should not meddle in the workings of sorcery
patientplatypus	I'm making dnd in sql
GeDaMo	You might want to look up Common Table Expressions
rindolf	patientplatypus: the game?
patientplatypus	yeah
rindolf	patientplatypus: ah
patientplatypus	its a challenging problem
AbleBacon	LOL I'm picturing players taking their turns by submitting database queries with their requests
patientplatypus	but it would be useful to be able to use a tree structure
patientplatypus	I'm just making the game sheet
GeDaMo	There's at least one game like that
patientplatypus	if i get that working that would be a hat trick
rindolf	patientplatypus: you can encode trees using a table or two
patientplatypus	hmmm
AbleBacon	ADD "MOVE, 1" TO TABLE "MOVE_QUEUE_$PLAYER_NAME"
GeDaMo	AbleBacon: https://schemaverse.com/
AbleBacon	i always feel like SQL people are screaming
patientplatypus	AHHHHH
AbleBacon	"Compete against other players using raw SQL commands to command your fleet." picard never had to do this
rindolf	patientplatypus: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sql+tree&ia=qa
AbleBacon	"CAPTAIN, we've lost control of our primary command instruments! all commands to the ship will have to be issued via MICROSOFT sql queries"
AbleBacon	"... number one, give the order to abandon ship."
rindolf	AbleBacon: heh
patientplatypus	i may just use lots of tables without the tree - looks overly complicated
rindolf	patientplatypus: what?
GeDaMo	Why do you need trees of tables?
patientplatypus	oh well....i was thinking trees but it just looks like this would be sort of sucky
Myrl-saki	AbleBacon: I'd be screaming too if I had to write SQL for a living.
rindolf	patientplatypus: every purpose should have a single table
AbleBacon	"you adopted capslock for internet arguments... i was born with capslock"
GeDaMo	I remember computers before lowercase was invented :P
CashDash123	How is a game like flappy bird ported to so many systems?
CashDash123	I mean what makes it so easy to port?
CashDash123	I mean it's been ported to the snes,gba,etc
AbleBacon	"captain, our systems are down! we can only match enemy ships for targeting using regex!" "... number one, issue the command ".*"" "but sir there are civi-" "i give up"
jrslepak	CashDash123: how complex is the game itself?
CashDash123	no very jrslepak but how was the source code obtained or was it reverse engineered?
AbleBacon	CashDash123, the logic behind the game is very simple. if it was written in, say, C++ there's probably a C++ compiler for all of those systems. the only thing that would change really is how to display the graphics
AbleBacon	ah--birds were the key to the game's breakthrough into success i see
AbleBacon	unless the birds are just a RED HERRING!
AbleBacon	wait--is a herring a fish?
AbleBacon	or a bird?
wedr_	Yeah, the Inverse Laws of Game Design, the shorter the jump distance, the more popular it gets via word of mouth
CashDash123	AbleBacon, the addiction of beating a high score lead to its popularity
wedr_	herring is a fish yes
wedr_	a type of tuna
rindolf	AbleBacon: heh
wedr_	salmon, not tuna
AbleBacon	then we need to invent "flappy herring"
AbleBacon	avoid sharks and other sea creatures idk
wedr_	For a warning, I think it's called red harring.
wedr_	Or haerring
AbleBacon	no, "red flag" is a warning. "red herring" is something that distracts you from the real thing
AbleBacon	shoot i don't know any more
wedr_	red herring is a fish.
wedr_	:/
wedr_	red Sirens, maybe?
jrslepak	it's also an idiom whose meaning is as AbleBacon described
wedr_	In Norse mythology, Sirens are blue.
wedr_	Or was it Greek?
wedr_	So red Sirens is like the shiny Pokemon that distracts you in real life.
AbleBacon	all those poor kids getting hit by cars looking at their phones hunting for pokemon
wedr_	True, Pokemon Go caused kids to get hit more often
jrslepak	the best solution is to play it on the bus :-P
AbleBacon	you don't want to go on the bus in America
AbleBacon	it is not a nice place
jrslepak	I was just there a few hours ago
GeDaMo	Does America only have one bus? :\|
jrslepak	haha
jrslepak	it seems that way some evenings
CashDash123	Leads me to question of how were games ported back in the day when you would have to downgrade a game to run on a system?
GeDaMo	A lot of hard work
CashDash123	kinda like how lets say you have developed a dreamcast game while also having a Linux and windows port
CashDash123	how does that work or even in reverse
GeDaMo	The game engine may have to be partly rewritten but the content (graphics etc.) should be reusable
CashDash123	I mean I was thinking in a similar vain to Elysian Shadows which I'm pretty sure was designed around the dreamcast
CashDash123	Which was tweaked most likely
CashDash123	that or I may also get an Idea by reading quora
GeDaMo	Hmmm ... there's a #dreamcastdev channel
horny-sama	GeDaMo: I thought dreamcast was stuff before I was born. Surprised that people still dev for it
GeDaMo	There's a also an #elysian_shadows channel but only one person in it
GeDaMo	People still develop for a lot of old systems
CashDash123	It's been chronicled on youtube since they were in high school in 2007
CashDash123	horny-sama, The Dreamcast due to it's discontinuation date makes it more common to have a system without protection from playing burned cdr's though it's bad for the laser
AbleBacon	"bad for the laser"--a likely story
patientplatypus	OK
patientplatypus	I'm confused
CashDash123	AbleBacon, well it was designed for GD-ROM
AbleBacon	how could it damage the laser, though?
AbleBacon	lasers don't have any moving parts!
patientplatypus	so here's my question: if i have a table with a, b, c, d, e and I want each of those 5 letters to reference 5 different tables A, B, C, D, E how would I do this in postgresql? I can link tables by foreign/primary key but I cant see how they actually reference the value its linking to
patientplatypus	so
GeDaMo	Why do you have 5 different tables?
patientplatypus	in dnd you have paladin, fighter, etc. I want each of those items to link to a table that contains their statistics. So one table with class names, several linked tables with different statistics
grouse	GeDaMo, gotta have redundant table in case bobby drops them ;)
GeDaMo	Why can't this be in one table?
AbleBacon	all classes have strength, intelligence, etc. you should have one table for shared characteristics of all classes
patientplatypus	because each class is entirely different from another
AbleBacon	oh i see what you're saying
patientplatypus	well like wizard and fighter are so different that the tables need to be totally separate
patientplatypus	the way sql seems to want to work is that it just replicates tables in a single customer/many purchases type pattern
patientplatypus	does anyone have any suggestions? I'm totally lost and have been staring at this for a while
GeDaMo	I'm having difficulty visualising your DB structure
patientplatypus	so one table for classes (fighter, wizard, etc)
patientplatypus	each class will have its one table - fighter table, wizard table, paladin table
patientplatypus	with their own special statistics on each
GeDaMo	What fields do these tables have?
patientplatypus	each table will have entirely different fields (this is the problem- if they were similar it would not be an issue). so fighter has swords and fighting, and wizard would have spells etc
patientplatypus	i need what is essentially some sort of tree/json like hierarchy but in sql
patientplatypus	ltree seems very confusing
patientplatypus	what do you mean beaky?
GeDaMo	What do these tables represent? Are they like D&D character sheets?
horny-sama	CashDash123: gd-rom?
GeDaMo	Yeah, IRC will do that to you :\|
CashDash123	horny-sama, It was Sega's specialized cd I think the reason the burned cd exploit had to do something with an exploit with the mil-cd format
CashDash123	though
horny-sama	Is it safe to assume that gd-rom is out of production
CashDash123	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GD-ROM horny-sama
horny-sama	CashDash123: did not say if it is out of production or not
CashDash123	I don't think anyone can press there games to GD-Rom any more.
CashDash123	I don't actually even own a dreamcast I just learned a bit about it
CashDash123	long ago
horny-sama	good luck with whatever you are doing
horny-sama	sounds cool
CashDash123	I figured it out hombre is pressed to mil-cd's
xeno	why would anyone wanna press things onto GD-Ros any more?
xeno	or why am I asking?
CashDash123	don't quote me on that
CashDash123	quote
horny-sama	xeno: I think CashDash123 is doing some dreamcast dev
CashDash123	horny-sama, I'm not
horny-sama	CashDash123: so just quest for knowledge?
xeno	horny-sama: yeah, but why?
CashDash123	It would just be a good place to get an Idea of how a game is ported
xeno	horny-sama: it's like the worst waste of time
horny-sama	xeno: different people have different hobby
xeno	yeah I know
AbleBacon	oh no... we're resorting to "scrum" meetings every morning. things must be getting really desperate.
CashDash123	I mean how games are made for old consoles really is interesting
horny-sama	AbleBacon: ?
AbleBacon	at my work
AbleBacon	and they pay me and all i have to do is not die
GeDaMo	https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Scrum-1.JPG
horny-sama	AbleBacon: in other words, you are their basic bitch
CashDash123	horny-sama, You could say that,and I really wanted a dreamcast a long time ago
AbleBacon	it's not a giant wrestling orgy; it's a management technique
GeDaMo	Why not both? :D
horny-sama	AbleBacon: just hope you made your fuck you money soon so you can quit
horny-sama	lol
Rounin	AbleBacon: Your team just needs to move their organization to Sloth® so that all of their personal data can be sold to advertisers
Rounin	Then you'll be truly efficient
Rounin	And of course SourceHub™ to organize your Packer images

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2017-10-12

ZERO nirvana

Display

narupo	hello
rindolf	narupo: hi
rindolf	narupo: how are you?
narupo	rindolf: hi rindolf. I'm fine :)
rindolf	narupo: nice
narupo	rindolf: sup?
rindolf	narupo: I'm fine - trying to be productive
rindolf	narupo: i reached inbox ZERO nirvana
narupo	rindolf: hm
narupo	rindolf: inbox is mail box?
rindolf	narupo: the email https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/in-box#English
Xatenev	rindolf, wait, you can be productive while being in irc?
narupo	rindolf: thanks.
narupo	rindolf: what is "ZERO nirvana"?
wXeno	rindolf: inbox zero?! wtf?
rindolf	narupo: an empty inbox
rindolf	narupo: and nirvana means a state of bliss
FManTropyx	ah, I thought it was the penultimate opposite of nirvana
FManTropyx	ie. zero nirvana
narupo	rindolf: ah, thanks. nirvana :)
FManTropyx	incidentally, my music collection is also ZERO nirvana
rindolf	narupo: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana
rindolf	wXeno: the fuck!
narupo	my bank account is ZERO nirvana ;)
rindolf	FManTropyx: ah
rindolf	narupo: heh
rindolf	FManTropyx: inbox zero's nirvana
wXeno	rindolf: on one of mine I got 5.5gb of mails (maybe 10k in my inbox for the last year) - for the other one I don't know, but 2-3000 unread
rindolf	the nirvana of inbox zero
rindolf	wXeno: ouch
rindolf	wXeno: i once saw a screenshot of a gmail.com account with 130K unread messages in the inbox
rindolf	wXeno: anyway, i hate clutter
wXeno	if you don't tend to it, then that goes fast
wXeno	rindolf: me too, but it's hard to avoid when I can get some hundreds of mails with actual content in an average/slightly busy day
wXeno	rindolf: and enough of references and long running topics that I can't delete old mails without losing relevant info
rindolf	wXeno: i move away emails to other folders
wXeno	rindolf: me too
wXeno	rindolf: and I delete what I can
rindolf	wXeno: ah
rindolf	wXeno: now i have an empty inbox in my gmail account too
wXeno	rindolf: damn, how? you delete everything?
Xatenev	I get like 4 emails per day.
Xatenev	Heh
exio4	I get about 4 emails I actually read a day too, and another 40-60 with content I might or might not care about :P
rindolf	wXeno: no
wXeno	rindolf: you made a mail address which violates the SMTP protocol?
rindolf	wXeno: no
wXeno	rindolf: you made it 17 seconds ago, and miraculously Google failed at sending the welcome mails?
wXeno	rindolf: ah you moved them to another folder
wXeno	all mails from @ -> inbox2 doesn't count :)
rindolf	wXeno: in this case i deleted them
rindolf	wXeno: but i don't delete all emails

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2017-10-28

Nomable browsers

Display

mentalita	mozzilla no longer makes thunderbird?
mentalita	mozilla
rindolf	mozzarilla
occultus	mozarella foxfire > goggle charm
xeno	mentalita: I'm not sure, I haven't really cared about thunderbird for probably a decade
mentalita	what do you use xeno
mentalita	outlook?
xeno	at work outlook, at home gmail
xeno	and yeah, I know that means Google has all my mail
xeno	but at least it means someone has my mail, as opposed to the mail I had before I started to use gmail, which is lost forever
snake2k	<occultus> mozarella foxfire > goggle charm ... no... micirosluft adge > life
occultus	macrohard straightedge > netscoop
snake2k	occultus, what about papple lafari?
occultus	isn't pear souffle barely maintained now?
snake2k	occultus, I think they gave up on it lol
snake2k	Gotta admit though, I wish Microsoft was my dad so that it would continue supporting me for some god forsaken reason even though I'm a disappointment lmao
rindolf	heh
snowmancantcode	snake2k: i was of the opinion Microsoft commonly killed of its "children" just as it got useful
snowmancantcode	or common so maybe a bad father to have
snowmancantcode	no support post 18 years end of life support :P
snake2k	snowmancantcode, hahahaha lol "son, you're a grown man now. You must die."

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2017-12-03

German as he is spoke

Display

rindolf	36 files changed, 160 insertions(+), 1118 deletions(-) ==> a very productive night
bavi	nice
bavi	tighten it up?
rindolf	I'd like to club my old self who just copy pasted and modified CSS code
bavi	ha
bavi	"let's just say I got rid of A LOT of extraneous whitespace"
bavi	;)
rindolf	bavi: heh
rindolf	bavi: i can probably save even more lines by converting the Contents.pm files to YAML
hio	Why do people use Rust? Is it a form of Stockholm syndrome?
hio	I mean, any child could see that this language is overcomplicated
hio	Yet they act like it's all fine
rindolf	hio: i feel that ponylang is more complicated than rust
hio	ponylang has a GC, how can it be more complicated
hio	just the weirdo decision from the Rust team to wrap lambda arguments with \| args \| is crazy
hio	they did that just to make parsing easier. Can you imagine? Wow
rindolf	hio: well, admittedly i didn't study rust too closely
rindolf	hio: ruby has that too
hio	They actually thought that making their parsing job slightly easier justifies making the language weirder and introducing new syntax that doesn't resemble function calls at all even though lambdas are basically exactly like functions
rindolf	hio: this night I reduced my codebase by close to a 1,000 lines
hio	that's great bro, you should start a facebook blog
rindolf	hio: i have a facebook and stuff
hio	I'm talking about really important issues
rindolf	hio: my latest tweet sparked some interest there
rindolf	hio: you are obsessed w discussing various languages
hio	I have hopes for both ziglang and jailang. Odin seems okay too but it's really hard to keep track of a language that resides only in youtube videos
hio	rindolf, bad languages are the reason why software sucks so much
hio	literally if we only get one good language, everything else will be fixed within a matter of months to years
rindolf	hio: a lot of software apps i use are OK
hio	people are so thirsty for better languages, they jumped on Rust and Golang like crazy
hio	can you imagine? it just shows how bad we have it
tttb	hi
rindolf	tttb: hi, sup?
hio	jailang will be released this year, are you ready yet rindolf ?
tttb	rindolf: i want my interface in Java to have attributes but they can't
rindolf	hio: should i be?
rindolf	tttb: ah
tttb	should i use an abstract class
tttb	or should i just give each concrete class the attributes and use an interface?
rindolf	tttb: you can also define accessors
tttb	i know, i'll use an abstract class for the attributes and an interface for the methods
hio	rindolf, what do you think? don't you want 0.2 sec compile times?
tttb	or is that dumb
hio	0.2 sec to compile an application that has c++ features and c++ speed is incredible
hio	you should switch to it as soon as it's available
bavi	https://www.xkcd.com/303/ :D
rindolf	hio: sounds good - what will its licence be?
rindolf	bavi: :)
rindolf	bavi: i broke the travis build though :(
bavi	rindolf: oh no!
bavi	as soon as I got a passing build i disabled travis for that repo ;)
rindolf	bavi: i suspect it is because i didn't install uglify-es
rindolf	bavi: my projects are becoming chimeras
hio	rindolf, MIT
hio	ur welcome
hio	what language are you using now?
rindolf	perl, python, c, cmake, c++, website meta lang, javascript, ruby, gnu make, and more
rindolf	hio: i use more than one
hio	half of those are bad
hio	why use perl, ruby, make? dude
rindolf	hio: they are OK
hio	i just said that they aren't okay at all
rindolf	hio: that was to bavi BTW
rindolf	hio: you are entitled to my opinion
tttb	can someone please explain what the point of an interface is when an abstract class provides all its functionality?
tttb	in Java
rindolf	hio: one reason is that i have a lot of legacy perl code and it needs to be maintained
rindolf	tttb: you can inherit from more than one interface
hio	just rewrite ur perl
hio	wait until jailang is released though
tttb	OK
rindolf	hio: heh
bavi	i read the first few chapters of the gnu make manual the other day, i like how it's written
rindolf	hio: i will rewrite all my perl code into $FASHION_LANGUAGE by hiring Chuck Norris, who will complete it in an hour and charge me 10,000,000 USD
rindolf	bavi: :)
rindolf	bavi: gmake now integrated guile scheme
Era_Scarecrow	I didn't know chuck norris could code... i figured he'd just punch the computer and it would give him what he wanted...
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: the computer just does what he wants
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: by pure intimidation
rindolf	hio: i like the mit licence
rindolf	it is my go to licence for my own projects
usr123	rindolf: Hello. Could you please take a look at my code?
rindolf	usr123: it seems fine, but you may have off-by-one errors
Era_Scarecrow	rindolf & usr123> I'd have looked at it, but i don't use python, so i don't know.
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: python is easy
Era_Scarecrow	perhaps, I'm not familiar with it, although it would mostly be syntax I'd have to get familiar with.
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: someone once told me he was able to look at python code and immediately be able to tweak it without knowing it
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: i think he already knew perl 5, though
FriesAndSriracha	Any reason to use fish over zsh?
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: i am still using bash
Era_Scarecrow	ditto, i also use bash... Depends on if there's a specific feature you need or not.
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: i found zsh too incompatible w bash
usr123	rindolf: Well in that case, I'm just returning if today is 7 and food is less or else I'm returning the first element of the array. even if it iterates one more or less would it affect the output?
FriesAndSriracha	rindolf: I am still on Bash as well, I just wanna follow the bandwagon ;)
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: ah
FriesAndSriracha	bandwagon == coolKids
Era_Scarecrow	Fries> why would you want to jump on a bandwagon? I don't see the point...
FriesAndSriracha	So that's why I was wondering if anyone here has used both fish and zsh and which one is better
FriesAndSriracha	Or the pros and cons of both
FriesAndSriracha	rindolf: also, what you mean by incompatible with bash?
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: csh is the bestest! http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/anti/csh/
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: i think $var does not expand words by default
SigSegOwl	good morning everybody :)
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: the only thing better than csh is CMD.EXE
FriesAndSriracha	I guess there's plugins for that
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: j/k
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: there is an option
rindolf	SigSegOwl: hoooooo
usr123	unable to ask questions on their forum as well. Seems like I don't have enough points. This is bad
FriesAndSriracha	I mean zsh seems to have a way bigger community than fish
usr123	is there a competitive programming channel on freenode?
SigSegOwl	why do hdmi to dvi cables only work one way ?
SigSegOwl	or even hdmi to displayport o.O ?
rindolf	SigSegOwl: physics possibly
FriesAndSriracha	Csh :P
SigSegOwl	let me ask it a little bit differently... why can't i connect a screen that has vga, dvi, dp to a pc that only has hdmi xD
Era_Scarecrow	SigSegOwl> Use a hammer... it will fit...
SigSegOwl	Era_Scarecrow: hammer the screen or the pc ?
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: i am reminded of this too - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=more-advanced-than-CVS
Era_Scarecrow	SigSegOwl> Hammer the connection into one of your ports... so... sort them all
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: heh
Era_Scarecrow	http://rinkworks.com/stupid/cs_abuse.shtml
FriesAndSriracha	Is there any CLI centric channel on Freenode?
Era_Scarecrow	try joining #bash?
FriesAndSriracha	That's pretty counterproductive ;)
Era_Scarecrow	Although if you go to one of the Linux rooms they might be helpful
FriesAndSriracha	Considering I am trying to move away from Bash
SigSegOwl	so there is no way to connect dvi or dp to hdmi ?
FriesAndSriracha	Ask in ##hardware ?
Era_Scarecrow	SigSegOwl> Without a converter, probably not...
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: heh, funny link
Era_Scarecrow	rindolf> Go back one level and there's ALL TYPES of topics.. programming, hardware, scammers... techno mumbo jumbo no one else understands :P
usr123	Is there a competitive programming channel on freenode?
rindolf	usr123: you can discuss it here
Era_Scarecrow	usr123> Hmmm maybe... Can't get more competitive than say CRobots though
rindolf	usr123: problem is there are many CP sites
SigSegOwl	see ya later then :D heading to work...
rindolf	SigSegOwl: hooooo
usr123	Well. I did post my code. I just can't figure out the corner case I might be missing.
l2y	usr123: try #algorithms
usr123	l2y: Thanks. on it
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: ah
Era_Scarecrow	I don't know what channels there are, because when i go to look over the list of channels or search through them.... there's so many and my client isn't very good at searching channel lists, so hope you have the exact title of something...
l2y	Era_Scarecrow: this is easy. you just Google "irc <yourtopic>", then find the first crawler, look at the number of members, and if it's legit, join
Era_Scarecrow	l2y> Maybe. I've also just joined rooms to see if they are empty or not :P
Era_Scarecrow	Here it's midnight... i should sleep soon
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: i stayed up all night refactoring old CSS stylesheets
Era_Scarecrow	fun...
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: i ended up reducing the codebase by close to a thousand lines
FriesAndSriracha	Sass!
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: no sass yet
Era_Scarecrow	fun fun. I got a script for reducing the size of a differential data backup up and running
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: i just consolidated the CSS directives
FriesAndSriracha	Sass changes lives :)
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: great
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: i like sass
Era_Scarecrow	yeah... the big pain in the butt was trying to get diff and patch to work on potentially differing newline types, without it replacing whole files just because it was \n instead of \r\n lines or whatever
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: ah, are you a fan of the sriracha sauce?
FriesAndSriracha	rindolf: sure am ;)
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: ah , i like it too
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: i see
FriesAndSriracha	Mostly because if that Garlic
FriesAndSriracha	*of
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: i use individual tarballs for backups
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: i have a 1 tb ext hard disk
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: and i exclude various large dirs that i don't need backed up
Era_Scarecrow	mhmm... i have a backup script that runs every 6 hours taking files newer than my last backup and saving it, means the files are about 3Mb per backup per day. then when i get around to plugging in my other drive, just copy the backups and I'm golden.
rindolf	Era_Scarecrow: ah
Era_Scarecrow	but when i run my script, i can remove unnecessary inclusions cutting the size down to something like 100k, and then with diff/patch, down to 60k per day
FriesAndSriracha	Well you can use rsync
bavi	gah... i was talking down the dark hallway and accidentally kicked/stepped-on the cat and one of her incisors went right into my heel
bavi	s/talking/walking :)
rindolf	bavi: :(
FriesAndSriracha	And that's why folks use your phone's LED
Era_Scarecrow	Fries> Not sure how I'd use it, as this is the only running computer in the house right now...
bavi	she is fine though :)
rindolf	bavi: ah
SlashLife^work	bavi: Ohhh, the ways in which cats can educate us about their ways ... =)
FriesAndSriracha	Era_Scarecrow: oh
bavi	now she has the zoomies
rindolf	bavi: you should have got a fluorescent cat
SlashLife^work	I'll totally get cats again when I have kids. pull - "Don't pull its tail!" - pull - "DON'T PULL ITS TAIL!" - pull -- claw -- cry - "I told you not to pull its tail!"
bavi	hah
FriesAndSriracha	http://theoatmeal.com/comics/cat_kill
rindolf	bavi: there was this manx kitten who was born with metallic green fur
SlashLife^work	rindolf: Heh. We had a cafe across a place I used to work to. They had a waitress who brought her big black dog in (looked like a golden retriever, except it was pitch black; are there pitch-black retrievers?) ... I suggested she could dye some fluorescent racing stripes into its fur. :D
rindolf	bavi: i saw a photo of him in the newspaper
SlashLife^work	FriesAndSriracha: I actually still have to read that book. :S
hio	rindolf, what is a MUST HAVE feature for a programming language?
bavi	rindolf: that's cool :)
FriesAndSriracha	SlashLife^work: same situation here ;)
bavi	integers
hio	i personally really enjoy the automatic typing in typescript where a struct automatically gets a type if it fits the interface. I think it's called duck typing but not entirely sure
SlashLife^work	FriesAndSriracha: Also have it lying around already? x)
hio	i mean it makes perfect sense, if some data structure has the exact same fields as an interface that i defined then just let it have that type immediately
hio	it's not duck typing because you still have to cast in Typescript
rindolf	hio: see http://shlomif-tech.livejournal.com/57811.html
FriesAndSriracha	Any point in learning Golang now?
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: to hack on golang projects
hio	rindolf, i don't subscribe to this middle of the road crap "everything sux, get over it" attitude. There is right and wrong in the world, period
hio	"You are damned either way, whatever you do." <-- very stupid attitude to have
SlashLife^work	hio: And C++ is on the right side ... mostly. :D
hio	c++ is just about the worst possible language that can exist
Era_Scarecrow	My current languages of choice, include AHK and D...
hio	hit me with some new and exciting c++ features, I'm sure they are ridiculously complex and useless
FriesAndSriracha	Google is a LLC now?
SlashLife^work	hio: I need a toolbox that gets the job done, not a crate full of useless, but exciting, gimmicks.
rindolf	hio: what is better: English, Hebrew, French, German, Arabic, Spanish, Swahili, Japanese, Mandarin, ...
hio	German
SlashLife^work	I'll take a screwdriver over a fidget spinner every day.
FriesAndSriracha	Also another language I've been hearing about is Haskell
hio	Haskell is a toy language, people only use it when they want to appear smart
FriesAndSriracha	Can we do server side coding with it?
SlashLife^work	FriesAndSriracha: You can do server side coding with almost every language.
SlashLife^work	FriesAndSriracha: If it can do console I/O on any modern OS, it can do server side web.
FriesAndSriracha	SlashLife^work: I know that but is it a popular or niche thing , that's the question
SlashLife^work	FriesAndSriracha: Look up CGI. :D
SlashLife^work	FriesAndSriracha: I know people who use Haskell for web.
hio	i mean look at this thing in c++: "auto glambda = [](auto a, auto&& b) { return a < b; };".. what's with the random array []? What is the array here???
rindolf	hio: we are not talking in German, are we?
SlashLife^work	I don't think they based their whole server side stack on it, though ... but I actually don't know.
hio	rindolf, we don't live in a perfect world, do we?
SlashLife^work	hio: It's not an array. It's an empty capture.
rindolf	hio: no.
hio	great that we worked that out
FriesAndSriracha	So this means there's no big projects using Haskell?
SlashLife^work	hio: So you're complaining that [] can have three different meanings?
hio	yes
SlashLife^work	hio: Good luck with () then.
hio	() only has one meaning
SlashLife^work	It does?
hio	yes, it means group up
rindolf	hio: German has three genders, and some inanimate objects are male or female - like wtf?
SlashLife^work	int x = foo(); double y = (2.0/3.0); int z = (int)y; ... I was thinking of at least one more a moment ago.
FriesAndSriracha	Sorry guys, I was just a web developer, took a long break and now trying to get into coding again
hio	it still all means "group up".
hio	even the cast
rindolf	hio: and a damsel is neuter
SlashLife^work	hio: BS
SlashLife^work	hio: Oh, the [] always means "index"
hio	it never means that wow
hio	int[10] does not mean index
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: what do you wish to do?
FriesAndSriracha	rindolf: mostly to learn some kinda language
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: ah
FriesAndSriracha	I know, HTML and CSS, and shell scripting
SlashLife^work	Either that something can have indices (void foo(int[])), or that something has indices (int arr[32]), or that you want to access an index (int x = arr[3]), or which indices from the current scope you want to capture (auto lambda = [arr,&x](){ x = *arr; })
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: ah
FriesAndSriracha	And can use git
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: ah.
FriesAndSriracha	But that's about it it her than by basic understanding of JavaScript
xqb	hi helloz
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: can you write fizz buzz?
hio	OK SlashLife^work, so it "accesses" variables inside the current scope as if the scope is an array. That's a complex way of seeing it but fine
rindolf	xqb: mew
FriesAndSriracha	s/her/other
xqb	bsd bsd bsd irc irc bsd
* xqb	shoos rindolf
xqb	dem cats
rindolf	xqb: cats are damn cute
FriesAndSriracha	rindolf: oh Tom Scott made a video about it
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: about what?
FriesAndSriracha	FizzBuzz I mean
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: ah
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: see https://github.com/shlomif/Freenode-programming-channel-FAQ/blob/master/FAQ_with_ToC__generated.md#what-is-fizzbuzz
FriesAndSriracha	Whose GitHub page is this?
FriesAndSriracha	Lotsa nice info ;)
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: someone i tutored was able to solve fizz buzz after the first few lessons
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: i am shlomif on gh
FriesAndSriracha	Oh nice :)
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: there were some other contributors to the faq
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: and it may be somewhat opinionated
FriesAndSriracha	Thanks for this, I've been out of this whole things for so long
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: thanks
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: you're welcome
FriesAndSriracha	I think getting into Python would be a good idea
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: i think so too
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: python is easy to learn
FriesAndSriracha	rindolf: yep I am kinda stuck between what to learn, to be honest
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: ah, i know that feeling
FriesAndSriracha	People are suggesting Python, Ruby, Go...
vdamewood	I vote for Python.
xqb	hi etc
FriesAndSriracha	and even JavaScript
vdamewood	High? i am not!
FriesAndSriracha	Node I mean
squirrel	oops wrong chan
mozzarella	I vote for ruby
xqb	:) /me hi5s vdamewood
vdamewood	FriesAndSriracha: What do you already know?
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: it reminds me of the philosophical dog that stands in equal distance between two identical piles of food and ends up starving to death
* rindolf	puts mozzarella on FriesAndSriracha and eats them both
FriesAndSriracha	I was a web developer, so no programming language, HTML, CASE, Shell scripting etc
vdamewood	rindolf: share!
rindolf	vdamewood: :)
vdamewood	CASE? (Typo of CSS?)
FriesAndSriracha	s/CASE/CSS
FriesAndSriracha	vdamewood: autocorrect actually
xqb	that's Buridan's donkey
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: ah
vdamewood	Hey look, someone who doesn't think HTML is a programming language.
FriesAndSriracha	rindolf: I know how that dog feels ;)
xqb	it is a donkey
rindolf	vdamewood: writing HTML is kinda programming though
* vdamewood	kicks the donkey.
vdamewood	It's time to kick ass!
vdamewood	rindolf: I don't believe it it as all.
xqb	heh
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: :)
FriesAndSriracha	Oh and basic Unix tools, and Git
FriesAndSriracha	That's all I know
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: OK, then learn python
xqb	+1 py
FriesAndSriracha	Seems reasonable
vdamewood	FriesAndSriracha: If you're looking for suggestions of real a real programming language to learn, go with Python. it has Django and Flask.
vdamewood	I prefer Django.
rindolf	and bottle
FriesAndSriracha	But Ruby has Rails and Sinatra too ;)
vdamewood	Ruby is also not Python.
vdamewood	Which is a point against Ruby.
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: the ruby hype seems to have mostly passed away
vdamewood	Though, Python, Ruby, and Java are all fine languages for beginners. Python is just slightly better.
FriesAndSriracha	rindolf: I know people are hyping Golang now
vdamewood	Everything else is terrible for beginners.
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: and rust
vdamewood	Golang is also on my terrible-for-beginners list.
FriesAndSriracha	And Kotlin maybe
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: and node.js
xqb	when I was starting, I was looking up how the same program (was it hello world?) looks like in different languages
xqb	I found C#'s syntax to be the most appealing to me
xqb	so I went with C# :)
rindolf	xqb: OK
vdamewood	xqb: Probably. Hello world is fairly popular for language juxtaposition.
rindolf	the first language is always the hardest to learn
FriesAndSriracha	I can't really go with C#
xqb	!fgoogle juxtaposition
FriesAndSriracha	I doubt it runs on Linux
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: it does
xqb	it does but not as expected
xqb	Mono is crap
xqb	and you can't do WPF
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: even .NET core from Microsoft
xqb	and 100+ things
FriesAndSriracha	Python it is then ;)
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: sure
vdamewood	xqb: justa- next to/besides. juxtoposition: to position next to/beside; to compare by placing side by side.
l2y	FriesAndSriracha: it runs on Linux, and does so rather well as of today
vdamewood	s/justa/juxta/
FriesAndSriracha	l2y: I mostly wanna do Server site coding
xqb	thanks :)
vdamewood	Well, Juxtaposition means the act as a noun. The verb is juxtapose.
FriesAndSriracha	s/site/side
FriesAndSriracha	Thanks a lot rindolf again!
l2y	FriesAndSriracha: OK, whatever. just proving you wrong, so that you don't doubt any more
FriesAndSriracha	Also thanks vdamewood
vdamewood	Bah, I didn't so anything significant.
FriesAndSriracha	l2y: oh I didn't know
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: you're welcome
FriesAndSriracha	rindolf: I think you should also include Video tutorials in your Python resources
vdamewood	I want to teach some stuff now.
* xqb	'd like to know what is unit testing and how do I start writing tests and what's a good read for testing
vdamewood	xqb: Unit testing is when you write code that makes your other code works properly. For example, if you have a function called addtwo(x), you would write a functions like this: a = addtwo(3); if a == 5, return true; else return false;
xqb	what's a unit in my code? a function/method?
xqb	a .. line?
xqb	what
vdamewood	A separate program.
vdamewood	Well, it could also be a function or collection of functions.
xqb	I'm testing a separate program in my program?
xqb	why don't I test my program directly?
mozzarella	nigga
vdamewood	You're not testing your program; you're testing parts (units) of your program.
mozzarella	return a == 5
vdamewood	If I really wanted to go that fare: return addtwo(3) == 5
vdamewood	far*
mozzarella	well you should
xqb	assert addtwo(3) == 5
xqb	and then I run pytest in the background
xqb	and I've tested a unit?
vdamewood	xqb: That might work, but it doesn't look like PyTest is specifically for Unit testing.
FriesAndSriracha	rindolf: but great resources still, thanks
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: you're welcome
xqb	I see
xqb	is TDD (Kent Beck) a good book?
rindolf	xqb: quite
rindolf	xqb: most of it is redundant
xqb	I know what you think rindolf, you're the one who recommended it :P
rindolf	xqb: ah
PlanckWalk	A "unit" is generally an internal API contract. Often a function or method.
xqb	what's an API contract
rindolf	xqb: i can recommend against a different one - https://mail.perl.org.il/pipermail/perl/2010-April/010909.html
rindolf	mozzarella: yes
PlanckWalk	A specification for how one part of a system can use another.
xqb	I see
FriesAndSriracha	Oh that reminds me of this site https://hackr.io/
vdamewood	xqb: Many unit-testing frameworks follow the design of a Java unit-testing framework called JUnit. Though, this isn't strictly required, it sure does help organize things.
vdamewood	xqb: https://docs.python.org/3/library/unittest.html
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: you can submit a pull-req for it
FriesAndSriracha	rindolf: I have to find some good ones first though :)
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: you can put the link to the site for all langs
xqb	vdamewood: I'll look at it, gtg, bbl, tyvm
vdamewood	Laters
rindolf	xqb: bye
Jasparon	Hello friends:
rindolf	Jasparon: meow
Jasparon	Do programmers care about logic gates, or do I need to study EE/CE?
Jasparon	rindolf: Long time no C
rindolf	Jasparon: we do
Jasparon	rindolf: Who is we?
brwr	Jasparon: programmers who work with logic gates care about logic gates :)
FriesAndSriracha	Gtg
rindolf	Jasparon: there are bitwise and logical operators
Jasparon	Uggggh....
rindolf	FriesAndSriracha: bye
FriesAndSriracha	rindolf: see ya
Jasparon	Suppose I want to get into how logic gates design works (theory), and I one day want to build custom circuits.
rindolf	Jasparon: i am a software dev who studied EE/CEish
Jasparon	Should I get an intro electronics book; or an intro circuits book?
rindolf	Jasparon: and graduated
Jasparon	Ok sure
Jasparon	:)
rindolf	Jasparon: well, not sure i can call what i studied CE
Jasparon	rindolf: Right.
brwr	Jasparon: IME its better to find a project that interests you and start working on it
brwr	YMMV
rindolf	Jasparon: it is technically EE proper, but calling me an electrical engineer would be a stretch
rts-sander	IME?
brwr	I find books helpful for things like design patterns and best practices, but not for code
Jasparon	brwr: I know, but I want to learn how electronics work, and how computer electronics work
brwr	rts-sander: in my experience
rindolf	Jasparon: the Technion is funny
Jasparon	rindolf: Maybe you're just a electronics-competent programmer?
rts-sander	brwr: ah I see, I thought it was misspelled IMO
brwr	Jasparon: +1
rindolf	Jasparon: i am clueless around electronics
Jasparon	brwr: Ok neat
Jasparon	brwr: Well, would you recommend I get: 1. Intro CE book. 2. Intro electronics. 3. Intro circuits? Which one?
rindolf	Jasparon: they never showed us how to replace a lightbulb
rindolf	Jasparon: wait a sec
Jasparon	rindolf: 0, because it's a hardware issue
brwr	Jasparon: i don’t know enough about electronics to make a recommendation. Sorry!
FMan	morning
rindolf	Jasparon: https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/computation-structures - this book is nice
rindolf	Jasparon: and there is also http://www.nand2tetris.org/
brwr	IRC on mobile is sadface
brwr	I get disconnected if I turn my screen off
rindolf	Jasparon: i suggest you start from a high level prog lang
rindolf	Jasparon: something like python
rindolf	Jasparon: how good is your math?
Jasparon	rindolf: So, I know about formal logic enough to know things like De Morgan's, but I still need to take college algebra
Jasparon	Thanks for the books
rindolf	Jasparon: you're welcome
Jasparon	rindolf: Here is a good question:
rindolf	Jasparon: logic can get pretty complicated and impractical
Jasparon	Really?
Jasparon	What's a good place to build objects? I think main?
rindolf	Jasparon: at least the one that is under active research
Jasparon	What's under active research?
rindolf	Jasparon: you can also build them int he methods of other objects
rindolf	Jasparon: logic
Jasparon	correct. I think it's "not good" to create objects in the instance-scope?
rindolf	Jasparon: why not?
Jasparon	rindolf: I tried constructing an instance of my class, in the instance-level in Java; stackoverflow
rindolf	Jasparon: otherwise you'll have a cluttered main func
Jasparon	Makes sense
rindolf	Jasparon: ah
rindolf	Jasparon: you need to limit your recursion
Jasparon	rindolf: Right. But I was so confused because my constructor was empty.
rindolf	Jasparon: or use iterative tree recursion with a dedicated stack
Jasparon	Good idea
mvaenskae	hm, low level detail question on C's memory allocation; if i request 200MB of memory via malloc will that be virtual-addressed memory or real memory locations?
Jasparon	rindolf: I should be going :)
rindolf	Jasparon: where?
rindolf	mvaenskae: hi
rindolf	mvaenskae: it depends where the program is running\
Jasparon	Heehee...
Jasparon	GTG :)
mvaenskae	rindolf: hm, in kernel mode it would then get the bare memory locations i take
rindolf	mvaenskae: possibly
rindolf	mvaenskae: kernel code does not have malloc() usually
* mvaenskae	ponders on reworking the sorting algos to not work with explicit arrays but a struct of linked/doubly-linked lists...
rindolf	mvaenskae: at least the Linux kernel doesn't
mvaenskae	hm, i could obviously adapt that to get the proper Linux kernel function but it could still fail due to fragmentation in allocation a large enough section
rindolf	mvaenskae: heh
mvaenskae	but i just realized my approach doesn't scale to structs to pointers to the next element, only to arrays of structs
l2y	mvaenskae: is your allocations are not enormous, kernel won't move a page from virtual memory to disk, and virtual memory provides constant time access, so, why bother?
l2y	s/is/if/
rindolf	mvaenskae: small optimisations can add up to a lot, but if your program can afford to be sub-optimally slower, then so be it
mvaenskae	rindolf: i don't so much care for performance than for stability; people somewhat OK in C should be able to understand how I approached different sorting algos within the constraints of C in the most generic way and can use them for their own projects about as easily as importing my stuff
rindolf	mvaenskae: see https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Optimizing_Code_for_Speed/Factor_Optimizations#Are_%22Small%22_Optimizations_Desirable?
rindolf	mvaenskae: stability?
mvaenskae	if it comes to just speed and i have a fixed interface i would have just commenced; i just realized my approach is not the most generic one
rindolf	mvaenskae: if you want your program to behave then keep it out of the kernel
Rashad	Morning
mvaenskae	l2y: i was mostly thinking of the problems on fragmentation :)
mvaenskae	rindolf: why keep it out of the kernel?
Rashad	rindolf: sup?
rindolf	mvaenskae: because code running in kernel land can do untold damage\
rindolf	Rashad: i refactored some CSS stylesheets
rindolf	Rashad: shaved a thousand lines
mvaenskae	rindolf: well, it's the kernel :) i expect nothing less of the system than request a sacrifice to boot again if i break it ;)
Rashad	rindolf: Do you use CSS normalization libraries?
Rashad	rindolf: Wow!
Rashad	Nice
rindolf	Rashad: no
rts-sander	whitespace lines? :)
rindolf	Rashad: it is for my talks at http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/
rindolf	Rashad: the quad-pres ones
rindolf	rts-sander: no
l2y	mvaenskae: again, what can you do about it? nothing. malloc already allocates a contiguous block of memory, if you are in a kernel space, which you should never be in, you don't have malloc. you are provided with an interface and are bound to what the interface reveals about itself
Rashad	rindolf: I don't know if you need this, but it's used by Twitter, GitHub and more: https://necolas.github.io/normalize.css/
rindolf	Rashad: i had done a lot of copying and tweaking
mvaenskae	l2y: i may to do kernel development ;) and i wanted to clarify the memory pages returned :) i assumed them to be VA but it's early in the morning and i wasn't fully awake to properly recall :)
Rashad	Neat
rindolf	Rashad: ah
rindolf	Rashad: it was bad
Rashad	I can imagine.
rindolf	Rashad: i had to consolidate my directives
Rashad	What directives?
rindolf	Rashad: the css ones
Rashad	You mean like :hover and stuff?
Rashad	Not sure I know what css directives are.
Rashad	The ones with the @?
mvaenskae	right now only userland and there i have now been verified how malloc works :) my aim is trying to eventually be able to write C code that is as generic as possible
rindolf	Rashad: see https://github.com/shlomif/shlomi-fish-homepage/commits/master
rindolf	Rashad: no
rindolf	Rashad: i mean regular rules like b { color: red; }
Rashad	Ah.
Rashad	That's a lot of commits :D
rindolf	Rashad: yes
rindolf	Rashad: the site dates back to 1997ish
Rashad	Wow.
rindolf	Rashad: but i used svn->hg->git for it relatively later
Rashad	What's that?
rindolf	Rashad: first i used svn
rindolf	Rashad: then moved to hg
rindolf	and finally git
Rashad	Ah those are versioning systems?
rindolf	Rashad: yes
Rashad	I see I see.
rts-sander	looks like you finally did git gud
rindolf	rts-sander: the main reason why i switched it to github was travis-ci
rindolf	rts-sander: well, and hg does not seem to become more popular
rts-sander	never heard of hg
rindolf	rts-sander: heh
rts-sander	rindolf: but do you like git itself more than the other systems?
rindolf	rts-sander: it isn't too bad, but has its share of quirks
rindolf	rts-sander: not sure
rindolf	rts-sander: i still kinda miss the simplicity of the svn model. i don't feel i understand git
velco	Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
Rashad	git is too complicated the only thing I use is push and pull
Rashad	morning velco
rts-sander	I've gotten decently proficient in git
vendu	yo :)
rts-sander	rindolf: do you also have experience with version control software in team settings or just solo projects?
velco	git is love, git is life
rindolf	rts-sander: also in teams
velco	(that said, I was pretty happy with Mercurial too)
vendu	rts-sander, i haven't :)
rts-sander	svn broke more often than not when I tried it with other people
velco	one does not have to understand git
rindolf	rts-sander: git rebase can be a bitch too
velco	one needs to know just enough of it, in order to accommodate their workflow
rindolf	velco: well, git threw me off quite a lot
rts-sander	if you have a lot of conflicts yeah
rindolf	velco: good thing there is #git here
rts-sander	git is advanced but there's no simplicity layer
rts-sander	users are thrown right into the deep
Rashad	Yeah.
rindolf	velco: https://xkcd.com/1597/
velco	rindolf, without clicking it, I know what it is :D
rindolf	velco: :)
velco	but just clone/checkout/push/pull/branch/rebase are sufficient to 99.937% if what I need to happen
velco	s/if/of/
velco	cherry-pick too
rindolf	velco: commit
velco	haha, yeah
velco	log
velco	diff
* rindolf	deletes velco 's git-commit script
rindolf	welcome to hell
* velco	restores git worktree from the backup
rindolf	lets do a pull req on git's git to remove git-commit
rindolf	velco: git bisect is also useful
rts-sander	lol I actually did that when I was a git noob
merijn	rts-sander: The simplicity layer of git is "Just use Mercurial"
rts-sander	back then the team I worked with worked on Windows and we had problems with file name case sensitivity
rindolf	merijn: hg threw me off too
merijn	rindolf: How so?
rts-sander	merijn: meh once you learn git it's good
rindolf	merijn: don't remember
rindolf	merijn: and i hate its heads misfeature
wwwwww	is it generally correct to say that jump instructions modify the program counter the same way an add instruction might modify a normal register?
merijn	rts-sander: Yeah, but why would I bother when I already knows Mercurial and it's so much simpler to learn? :)
rts-sander	merijn: good point, there's no reason to learn something more complex when you already have something that works
rts-sander	that's why I'm not going through the effort of learning Haskell :D
merijn	I don't think git is even that much more complex than mercurial
rindolf	rts-sander: heh
merijn	It just has really shit UI/UX
rts-sander	UI? heh I just use the cmd line
rindolf	merijn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better perhaps
rindolf	rts-sander: cmd line is ui too
merijn	rts-sander: I'm referring to the cmd line
merijn	UI is UI, graphical or not
loginoob	Is it really true that to learn some language, try to build something that one have no idea how to start
loginoob	in that language
rindolf	loginoob: i never did that
rindolf	loginoob: perhaps try to contribute to an existing codebase
rts-sander	ah, I assumed UI = GUI
rts-sander	yeah I agree it's confusing at times
rts-sander	for example git checkout -- path, git checkout branchname, git checkout -b newbranch all do something completely different
rindolf	rts-sander: also see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=djb-on-cmd-interfaces
merijn	rts-sander: I think this summarises it accurately: http://stevelosh.com/media/images/blog/2010/01/mercurial-vs-git.jpg
rindolf	merijn: heh
loginoob	git is easy until you fuck up
merijn	loginoob: Then you just Google and copy&paste cryptic lines from blogposts until either all your data is gone or it's fixed :p
rts-sander	oh hg = mercurial lol
SlashLife^work	GAHHH! OCD!! >_<"
loginoob	true
merijn	rts-sander: Because nobody wants to type a command as long as "mercurial" :p
loginoob	merry: You are a haskeller right?
loginoob	shit
SlashLife^work	I have a directory, an archive and an executable, all by the name of "qt-" in subsequent lines on the same terminal. "ls" colored them blue, red and green respectively ...
loginoob	merijn:
SlashLife^work	... which means they do not perfectly line up because they use different subpixels.
SlashLife^work	... which annoys the hell out of me.
merijn	loginoob: I program in Haskell among other things, yes :p
SlashLife^work	GAAAAAHHHH!!!!
SlashLife^work	Cannot ... unsee ... ;_;
merijn	SlashLife^work: Your life could be worse
rts-sander	SlashLife^work: you could probably remove the colors from ls
jp	env TERM=dumb ls
jp	sight has been unseen
* vendu	writes a bullshit generator for git commit comments =)
SlashLife^work	merijn: Well, I guess it confirms my 20/10 vision.
Jeremeh	vendu: http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/
SlashLife^work	rts-sander: That won't help me now that I know they'd be offset when in color. :\|
vendu	bbs lunch :)
merijn	SlashLife^work: Could have all your experimental results stored on a cluster fileshare with a deadline tomorrow only to realise the cluster is down for maintenance until late today >.>
SlashLife^work	merijn: Yup. Maintenance is until Friday. And they moved the deadline from next Monday to yesterday.
SlashLife^work	(On last Friday afternoon.)
SlashLife^work	That would so be happening if I was still working at my previous job. >_>

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2018-01-30

Imaginary Mohawk

Display

rindolf	xoryo: hi
rindolf	xoryo: i got a hair cut
adsc	rindolf: you cut off your dreadlocks?
rindolf	adsc: i didn't have ones
adsc	what? you cut off your imaginary dreadlocks? I hope you didn't have to pay for that
rindolf	adsc: heh
adsc	I'll never cut off my imaginary mohawk
* rindolf	cuts off adsc 's imaginary mohawk
* rindolf	is an imaginary bastard
* adsc	accuses rindolf of imaginary cruelty and files a case at the international court of human rights in The Hague
adsc	CRIMES AGAINST IMAGINATION
rindolf	adsc: the imaginary one?
adsc	no, your crime is real
SlashLife^work	*imaginary court of human rights in The Utopia
rindolf	adsc: imaginary real?
adsc	yeah, it's complex
rindolf	adsc: nice
rindolf	better than imaginary integer
adsc	the subject of the crime is imaginary, but the crime itself is real
* rindolf	flees to an imaginary haven
* adsc	plots rindolf on the Gaussian plane
adsc	there you are
* rindolf	conspires against the plot
exio4	liste: Finnish people are over-represented on IRC
vendu	rts-sander, let me find the rules for everyone
xqb	Finnish people invented IRC :P
exio4	maybe some irc channel is selling alcohol???
exio4	xqb: i know :p
liste	though most Finns hang out in IRCnet
adsc	vendu: I've wanted to make a console based cracking game in forever, but I'm always too lazy
FMan	Finns invented getting drunk
rindolf	FMan: they did not
rindolf	FMan: the jewish bible describes Noah getting drunk
exio4	rindolf: it's a joke, Finns are known to get extremely drunk
rindolf	exio4: yes
SlashLife^work	rindolf: Now you know why he got stuck on a mountain.
xqb	people were getting drunk and high way before any bible
exio4	that, too
rindolf	xqb: true
SlashLife^work	rindolf: That's how people got from paradise to Finland. :D
wedr_	Finland is the End of Land. :/
rindolf	SlashLife^work: :)
exio4	it's the north pole, they're Santa's buddies
rindolf	there is nor way out of there
wedr_	Oh, how Sweden of you. :/
rindolf	wedr_: :)
SlashLife^work	Nah, that's not sweed en actually even quite mean. :(
xqb	sweeden weeden
vendu	https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/21506/new-mastermind
FMan	this is paradise: https://www.memecenter.com/fun/146294/Meanwhile-in-finland
vendu	adsc, console mastermind would be quick
vendu	to program
xqb	FMan: what, sunbathing?
xqb	yeah
liste	code 8 hours, relax 8 hours (including working out etc), sleep 8 hours
wedr_	liste: No time to eat. :(
liste	maybe it's contained in relaxing
snake2k	liste++
liste	and partly coding :)
snake2k	Eating is for humans, we're all perl scripts here.
weeirc8089	snake2k++
* Tsoulus_	has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
rindolf	snake2k: heh
snake2k	I have a feeling rindolf has the freenode FAQ links on a open text file all the time lmao
wedr_	So... relax is actually just sleep + bath/shower + play + walk dog + caring baby + make breakfast/lunch/dinner + pay bills + do tax returns + get mad and argue with wife + cry?
snake2k	weeirc8089, >_<
xqb	snake2k, me too
merijn	wedr_: Cuddle cat!
snake2k	wedr_, oh yes! the emotional drama is my favorite! :P
rindolf	snake2k: i am a superintelligent nand gate
wedr_	Ah, a typical human day
snake2k	rindolf, self aware nand gates?! >_>
snake2k	we're doomed!
sd5869	rindolf: nandgate :P
rindolf	exec_: what does gcc -E say?
Sornaensis	it says you’re a HERETIC
aawe	what does `rm -rf ./*; rustup install nightly; cargo init .` say?
rindolf	aawe: how about no?
snake2k	lol
aawe	RIR
rindolf	aawe: what does `sudo rm -fr /* # Sayonara, asshole!` say?
aawe	you forgot --no-preserve-root
rindolf	aawe: note that it may take a while to run.
rindolf	aawe: w /*?
aawe	it would probably be faster if rm was written in rust
rindolf	aawe: then: 1. Rewrite rm in rust. 2. Benchmark both versions
rindolf	on /* of course
Nowyouseeme	What's the motivation to come to a IRC like this?
adsc	to chat with other fellow programmers
rindolf	Nowyouseeme: to get help?
rindolf	Nowyouseeme: to help others?
rindolf	Nowyouseeme: to debate?
adsc	no help, only panda memes pls
Nowyouseeme	To help others!
rindolf	adsc: can you help me find panda memes?
Nowyouseeme	only very nice people would think that
aawe	I want memes too
hexingbao	Nowyouseeme to see different culture
snake2k	birkoff, a simple linear search algorithm if you're not gonna sort it
vesc	Birkoff: If you are sorting you can do it quicker than N.
snake2k	birkoff, you'd be better off implemented a fast sorting algorithm and picking the first (or last) value off the array.
birkoff	vesc interesting. how ? I'm not sorting though.
day	snake2k: sorting is faster than N?
vesc	I agree with snake2k
snake2k	day, if it's a massive array, then yes
day	but how can you sort without having to look at each element?
rts-sander	wtf kind of shit advice is that
snake2k	day, the time complexity of checking each N to the next can scale larger depending on array size. But a highly optimized sort can cut the time down.
rts-sander	sort the entire array just to get one value?
day	snake2k: but then it wouldn't be O(n) any more would it?
snake2k	I'm not saying to use a basic sorting algorithm because that's pointless lmao
vesc	rts-sander: what would you do?
snake2k	you'd be better off with just a linear search
rts-sander	vesc, loop through and remember the highest encountered number
day	yeah
rindolf	snake2k: sort cannot be better than o(n)
rindolf	snake2k: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timsort
rts-sander	unless the array is already sorted, then it's O(1) :)
vesc	rts-sander: the best you could get is O(n) I know a sort cand be done better than that.
vesc	can*
rindolf	snake2k: and it is O(N*log(N)) worst case
rts-sander	vesc, how can sorting an entire array possibly be faster than finding the largest value?
rindolf	rts-sander: you need to know that is the case
vesc	because you need to know what the largest value is
snake2k	rindolf, I see
snake2k	Let's go ape shit and do parallel processing on 4 threads 4 O(N/4)s
snake2k	lmao
rindolf	flipchan: hi
flipchan	hey rindolf
flipchan	what's up
rindolf	flipchan: i got a haircut today
rindolf	flipchan: and looked into contributing to tslint, but they have 65 open pull requests
* snake2k	(snake2k@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/snake2k) has left ("Leaving")
* snake2k	(snake2k@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/snake2k) has joined
snake2k	closed out ##programming by mistake >_>
flipchan	rindolf: cant choice one?
rindolf	flipchan: what?
flipchan	oh i read wrong thought u wrote 65 open issues
rindolf	flipchan: ah
rts-sander	how you're going to contribute?
rts-sander	by adding some more pull requests? :D
rindolf	rts-sander: heh
rindolf	rts-sander: https://xkcd.com/927/
rindolf	well, not quite the same
rindolf	snake2k: admit it - you did it on purpose. :-P
rindolf	snake2k: :)
snake2k	rindolf, lmao no I pressed ^W to close a firefox tab but I had my IRC client selected :P
rindolf	snake2k: ah, it happens to me too

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2018-02-07

Copyrighting Fibonacci

Display

G3nka1	Hello I am finding fib number for a large series, here is my code https://pastebin.com/Eu5J4r5y but I get the following error
AbleBacon	man this python looks like Greek to me. I'm so out of touch
rindolf	G3nka1: hi
rindolf	G3nka1: this is an inaccurate method
rindolf	G3nka1: perhaps try using matrix exp
G3nka1	Hi rindolf
G3nka1	oh
G3nka1	matrix exp?
rindolf	G3nka1: yes
rindolf	G3nka1: or just use the a,b = b, a+b algo
G3nka1	But rindolf it will take longer that way, and stack overflows because of multiple recursions
rindolf	G3nka1: what?
rindolf	G3nka1: why?
GeDaMo	You don't have to do it recursively
rindolf	G3nka1: do it iteratively
G3nka1	rindolf, using yield
G3nka1	?
rindolf	G3nka1: that is an option
rindolf	G3nka1: wait a sec
G3nka1	alright
rindolf	G3nka1: see https://github.com/shlomif/shlomif-perl-snippets/blob/master/fibonacci-iterative.py
AbleBacon	good lord... you need an enormous license statement for that snippet?
rindolf	AbleBacon: yes
iodev	AbleBacon, LOL!!!
AbleBacon	"i used this snippet in my production software and it totally destroyed everything and now I'm gonna sue"
iodev	rindolf, this is illegal!
iodev	you can't copyright Fibonacci!
G3nka1	rindolf, yup I also had written something similar https://paste.pound-python.org/show/WnXeO2U2BwuzHRQ8k8e2/
iodev	you can only copyright a unique idea, fibonacci-iterative.py is like copyrighting the stool :D
rindolf	iodev: i copyright the code and it is Expat
AbleBacon	that's not similar... it doesn't have an elaborate license explicitly stated in the code file
iodev	rindolf, well, i can do whatever I want with it, Fibonacci is public domain, you can't MIT it, if I wanna use it in proprietary software, I can
AbleBacon	it's a good thing you didn't write something similar, because that shit is already copyrighted
rindolf	iodev: go ahead
iodev	because it's not really original, so not copyrighted, so you can't sue
rindolf	iodev: mit allows that
AbleBacon	did he just implicitly award you a license to use Fibonacci?
rindolf	iodev: i wont sue you
iodev	The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be
iodev	included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
iodev	no, even if I don't do this, you can't sue me rindolf
AbleBacon	"i used this Fibonacci code as the random number generator for my library and my security has been cracked. I'm totally suing"
iodev	rindolf, there, I broke your license :D http://dpaste.com/1NWZFH0
rindolf	G3nka1: fibgen and F are identical
iodev	and I dare you to sue me! rindolf make me rich, sue me :D I'll win
Trashlord	heh
rindolf	iodev: I'm cool with that
iodev	or get the MIT to sue me, even better :D
Trashlord	it didn't occur to me that I should use something like b = a, a = a+b
Trashlord	I always do it like result = a+b, b = a, a = result
iodev	rindolf, I'm joking pal, don't be angry okay
rindolf	iodev: http://fc-solve.shlomifish.org/faq.html#abuse_of_fc_solve
Trashlord	I need a course in how to not over complicated software
rindolf	iodev: I'm laughing
rindolf	iodev: that is OK
AbleBacon	i mean, an iterative approach is what you use when generating Fibonacci numbers on paper
G3nka1	I know rindolf
iodev	rindolf, anyway, you see, before you MIT/GPL something you must having something Original, that is the copyrighted thing :D
iodev	if anyone can make it, just like anyone can make a stool, no patent, no copyright is given, because you're not the author of anything, rindolf
AbleBacon	Fibonacci isn't around to say that it's not original
AbleBacon	that mofo is 6 feet under somewhere in Italy
GeDaMo	fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs)
iodev	I'm an amateur lawyer, rindolf :-)
iodev	I like to learn legalese :D
AbleBacon	I've seen a couple of episodes of law & order and i can confirm he's correct
AbleBacon	this case just needs a bombshell for the thrill factor
AbleBacon	Fibonacci's great-great-great-great-grandson comes in as a surprise witness
AbleBacon	and testifies that Fibonacci stole the formula
iodev	AbleBacon, yes, soap opera
iodev	and in 20 years, he confesses on his death bead to have stolen the formula from an orphan
iodev	and asks him for forgiveness through an email, and gets a "NOO!"
iodev	and then he dies, crying :D
AbleBacon	:-(
iodev	AbleBacon, don't cry, it sells
iodev	or it seems like he died, in about 200 episodes he wakes up out of a comma on a hospital bed!
iodev	when everyone has forgotten that he was dead, and the soap opera contradicts itself :-)
rindolf	heh
rindolf	LOL
iodev	rindolf, you are sworn to tell the truth and nothing but the truth, don't soap operas contradict themselves?
rindolf	iodev: see http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/public-domain.html
iodev	LOL!!! linuxmafia
iodev	rindolf, a site against Linux, unbelievable!
rindolf	iodev: it isn't against Linux

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2018-03-07

Bad Maths Puns

Display

rindolf	yay! I solved my long time nemesis https://projecteuler.net/problem=261
rindolf	it required some maths analysis
vdamewood	rindolf: Yay.
Gamah	yay maths
* vdamewood	is a math addict
Gamah	breaking rad
vdamewood	I live in sin
Batholith	anyone else love tan salons?
wedr_	where's punishment
Batholith	PUNishment
vdamewood	Batholith: They cos too much
wedr_	FUNishment
jrslepak	. o O ( these jokes are sadly derivative )
vdamewood	jrslepak: We have yet to reach the limit
jrslepak	oh well, bad puns are integral to the IRC experience
wedr_	Yeah, where's the sigma when you needed it.
Gamah	next to the pi
Gamah	which really is the root of all evil
Trashlord	I once met a guy who had both an American and South African nationalities. He was a South African-American.
Gamah	swing and a miss
vdamewood	Trashlord: That's not a math pun. Ye'r outta here
Trashlord	oh. I thought we were doing general puns
Trashlord	about anything
vdamewood	Nope. Bad math puns.
Trashlord	oh well
Trashlord	then I'm going to eat oatmeal. Goodbye
Batholith	a real party pooper
vdamewood	imagine that
vdamewood	This is a complex topic.
Batholith	okay that was such a long shot that I should feel bad
Trashlord	yeah, it wasn't a natural math pun
Trashlord	hey
Trashlord	is that even a pun?
vdamewood	this just makes me feel number and number.
Trashlord	hmmm yeah, it could be
Batholith	vdamewood: you're acute tea pi
vdamewood	Aww, thanks.
Gamah	that incremented quickly
Batholith	there's a fine line between a numerator and a denominator.
Batholith	only a fraction of people will find that funny
d3x0r	hah
Gamah	A wild exponential function appeared! You used DIFFERENTIATE!
Gamah	It's not very effective...
Batholith	do you guys speak sine language?
vdamewood	Batholith: 5/4 of the population don't understand fractions.
Gamah	i'll do algebra... i'll do trig... i'll even do statistics... but graphing is where i draw the line.
Batholith	my friend called me average. he can be so mean
Gamah	he was probably just in a bad mode
Gamah	I'm gonna have to save this log for later
Batholith	hope you can save it in linear time
rindolf	heh, heh
Gamah	Batholith: that joke didn't really add up
Batholith	I know, it was a little odd
rindolf	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BipvGD-LCjU
rindolf	Batholith: heh
Gamah	√((-shit)^2)
Gamah	shit just got real
rindolf	Gamah: heh
exio4	Gamah: sqrt((-i)^2) is not real

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2018-04-02

To boldly code

Display

rts-sander	as in suddenly you'll start getting empty responses
adsc	an api that has 1 request per minute limit is nearly useless
rts-sander	well it's not a limit but it's recommended
wedr_	fetch(url).then((r)=> return r.OK ? r.json() : r.text()).then((json) => doStuff(json));
wedr_	Pretty much
solidfox	then
solidfox	that's new to me.
qoxncyha	wedr_: that will break for !r.OK
Tywin	Ugh, reddit's still written in python. No wonder it's slow as hell.
qoxncyha	i usually do `.then(r => { if (!r.OK) { throw r; } return r.json() })`
wedr_	oh
solidfox	I write my websites in C
wedr_	You should write in WebASM
wedr_	:D
velco	s/Web//
solidfox	nah man. I mean the backend
wedr_	oh
adsc	soon you will be able to write the frontend in C, too
rindolf	solidfox: my websites are mostly static html
solidfox	sweet. I can render my interface myself instead of using css
Tywin	Is C web-scale? Do all the cool kids use it?
rindolf	Tywin: /dev/null is web scale
solidfox	rindolf, ah. so you don't use any programming?
rindolf	Tywin: it has sharding
rindolf	solidfox: i do
Tywin	rindolf, does /dev/null also have native non-blocking sharding?
Tywin	:D
rindolf	solidfox: i use static site generators
rindolf	solidfox: and there is client-side js
rindolf	Tywin: http://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/slash-dev-null_is_WebScale/
solidfox	rindolf, ah I see
solidfox	I think I remember now. aren't your static site generators written in perl?
Tywin	rindolf, how can I get this /dev/null? What do I have to type in my 5000$ Mac?
rindolf	solidfox: see http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/site-source/
rindolf	solidfox: not entirely
rindolf	Tywin: just PayPal me 100 bitcoins
wedr_	PayPal supports bitcoins?
wedr_	Or that's a joke?
rindolf	wedr_: a joke
wedr_	OK
wedr_	Otherwise, my co-workers going to cash all in on PayPal
wedr_	They have a strut of bitcoins
wedr_	Hoping to get back into the green
rindolf	wedr_: he can pay me 1,000,000 USD instead
rindolf	to get the coveted /dev/null
wedr_	Wait until we hit 2030, when USD is probably hyper-inflating.
solidfox	wedr_, that ain't gonna happen
solidfox	wedr_, we can barely maintain current inflation rates
wedr_	Hence it's a joke
arahael	rindolf: not entirely a joke, unless it is extremely widespread. There are quite a few results for 'PayPal bitcoin'
rindolf	arahael: i 'd imagine
arahael	rindolf: the more promising sites seem to be old though, e.g., a pcworld article from 2015. i suspect that they may have considered it in the past. (but i haven't read it. )
wedr_	or extremely fictitious and click-baity
rindolf	solidfox: https://github.com/shlomif/shlomi-fish-homepage/blob/master/.travis.yml - this is the build process
rts-sander	for a mere 999,000 USD I'll even spin up /dev/null as a service for you
rts-sander	which exists already apparently: https://devnull-as-a-service.com/
Tywin	rts-sander, it's expensive as hell, so it must be good. I'm talking with my management right now about buying some /dev/null.
xi-	rts-sander: dispose of your data safely and efficiently with /dev/null!
rindolf	Tywin: heh
xi-	now for only 150$ per month on a 5 year contract!
rts-sander	I legit think there's non-technical business people you could sell this to
rindolf	rts-sander: see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=mongodb-vs-dev-null
rts-sander	rindolf, this hans guy is thorough
rindolf	rts-sander: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-perl-paid-version-of-cpan
rts-sander	rindolf, it's true though if you look at what some companies pay for enterprise software
rindolf	rts-sander: enterprise!
rindolf	to boldly code what many have coded before
rindolf	lol
rts-sander	not like many of us are going through uncharted territory, we at least have the decency to not pretend otherwise
rindolf	rts-sander: enterprise software! https://fc-solve.blogspot.co.il/2010/03/01-april-2010-freecell-solver.html
rts-sander	rindolf, consistent usage of the trademark symbol
rts-sander	if you miss it once your intellectual property might get stolen!
rts-sander	"Eh, what the hell?" lol
rindolf	rts-sander: heh. That is True™

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2018-05-09

Compilation Speeds

Display

GeDaMo	Turbo Pascal :P
rindolf	GeDaMo: where?
Aruseus	many modern language features are slow to compile. rust has that problem too
InPhase	Fast compilation, fast development, fast runtime. Choose 2.
rindolf	InPhase: heh
rindolf	InPhase: 2 or less
GeDaMo	rindolf: that was to beaky's "instant compile speeds"
rindolf	GeDaMo: ah
InPhase	There's a fundamental reason one ends up with that trade-off of choosing 2. Turning complicated ideas into fast instructions is complicated. And that complexity has to eventually be processed somewhere, either in the head of the programmer, by the compiler, or as a runtime cost.
rindolf	InPhase: interesting
_W_	most slow compilers are slow, not because it is necessary, but simply because making it fast hasn't been a priority
InPhase	_W_: Well the major C++ compiler designers, and the C++ language committee, reportedly spent effort trying to significantly speed up compilation in recent years. But I think we can see there were not many meaningful results from those efforts. They've had trouble finding ways that don't majorly break the features that make the C++ runtime fast.
xeno	if I don't learn how to read a file line by line in Swift, this one will also be slow, memory consuming or unstable ;/
xeno	:/
_W_	well C++ compilation is already relatively fast, so it makes sense that there wouldn't be a lot to gain
jeaye	There have been huge results in the reduction of TMP compilation speeds, thanks to pressure from the clang/llvm world.
jeaye	Templates, of course, being the biggest practical slowdown in C++ compilation, that's a big win.
rindolf	jeaye: what is TMP?
jeaye	rindolf: Template MetaProgramming
_W_	I'd go so far as to say that there's more of a correlation between how young a language is and how slow its compilation is, than between complexity of language and how slow the compilation is
rindolf	jeaye: ah
SlashLife	jeaye: And to be fair, I don't think it was obvious 20-25 years ago how big TMP would become.
rindolf	_W_: some languages started off with fast compilers
_W_	yes, it's not a hard rule by any means
rindolf	_W_: and gcc got slower - https://github.com/shlomif/fc-solve/blob/master/fc-solve/docs/gcc-2.95.txt
gehn	fast in terms of time to compile? or fast in terms of the performance of the resulting executable?
_W_	gehn: time spent in compilation was what was being discussed
_W_	(and contrasted up against speed of development and speed of execution)
gehn	ah
xeno	would guess most languages started off with fast compilers that got slower
_W_	probably, at least up to some level of complexity and features
velco	speed of development is subjective, its place is not at all with the other too
velco	two*
gehn	compile time is certainly something that impacts dev time
gehn	at least in my experience
gehn	I like C++, but I don't love everything about it. it would be nice if we had significantly faster C++ compile times
velco	in my experience, it does impact time taken only when not writing code
gehn	well, testing the code written is a pretty important and continuous process of my development
gehn	I have unit tests, but those don't cover everything
gehn	and GUIs are often more difficult to test at all
gehn	especially difficult to test things like the result of a render operation on an OpenGL context
gehn	so, needing to wait a significant amount of time (upwards of a minute or several) just to test some fairly simple change can spiral time-to-dev costs
rindolf	gehn: yes
rindolf	gehn: using ccache has changed my life
velco	what percentage of this time is spent compiling? and what is spent analysing the issue, coming up with a solution, implementing the solution, writing a test, code review, running the test?
gehn	rindolf, is that different from how a Makefile or whatever (or a cmake generated project) should be able to detect which files need compile and which don't?
gehn	velco, like I said, it's not always feasible to write a test for everything
rindolf	gehn: sometimes it is
gehn	I don't have an answer as to exact percentage, but on many days I suspect I spend almost 50% of my total time waiting for compiles
rindolf	gehn: if you did “make clean” for example
velco	gehn: Sure. Why do you feel compelled to tell this to me?
gehn	that might be an overestimate, but it's not far away
Aruseus	gehn, if you have a file b that depends on a. if you change a, then you'll need to recompile b even if you didn't change it at all. so probably not everything will change
gehn	velco, were you not asking the percentage question as a response to what I had said?
rindolf	obxkcd: https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/303:_Compiling
gehn	unit tests help a lot
velco	gehn: yes, and if you don't write test, my list potentially incomplete list of things allows for a 0 percent
gehn	because they compile much faster as each unit is typically decoupled from the entire app
velco	gehn: sound like you need to rethink your workflow
gehn	velco, sorry I don't understand what you just said
gehn	velco, maybe, but I'm not sure what to change about said workflow
velco	gehn: I have not put a restriction of non-zero time on any particular item in my list, so I don't understand why do you need to tell me some of these may take zero time
gehn	so, it's great to write unit tests, and I write a lot of them, but when doing more GUI centric integration centric work - a workflow centered around unit tests isn't viable
gehn	velco, I seriously still don't understand what you're saying?
gehn	when did I say anything about zero time?
rindolf	gehn: there is also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distcc
gehn	velco, yes, what about that statement?
velco	I have found that a a simple change incurs less than 2 minutes of building of a large c++ project, most of it spent in linking
gehn	2 minutes is still kind of a lot
gehn	I tend to not write tons of code before recompiling and testing
gehn	so I might spend anywhere from 30s to 5 minutes on a few lines, and then I usually want to test again before moving on
gehn	with unit tests where compilation and runtime is usually < 20-30s that's mostly not an issue
gehn	but when compile times start to rise above the minute-or-several mark, then this begins to become more of a problematic issue
velco	why run compilation and test so often?
gehn	I think the answer to that should be fairly clear to many if not most devs
velco	I run it when I have written a committable amount of code
exio4_noznc	velco: fail early
gehn	the more lines of code you write the more chance that you've made a mistake, and the further you go without checking your work, the more likely it is you'll end up in a very difficult to debug situation that consumes more time than it should
velco	exio4_noznc: it looks to me that some fail even before starting :P
gde33	shouldn't make mistakes
gehn	linting helps with that a lot
gehn	but still doesn't prevent logic or runtime errors
velco	gehn: that does not come form my experience; it is very rare I have an error in each line I write
gehn	so I guess velco is a near god-like perfect programmer
velco	in fact, most are correct; hence, testing them in isolation proves pointless
gehn	for the rest of us mortals however...
gehn	I don't test lines in isolation

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2018-05-09

Dogs on the Internet

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DnzAtWrk	wow, I need to go on a quest for coffee
rindolf	Coffee Quest
Mangy_Dog	The Legend of the Bitter bean
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: heh
Mangy_Dog	:>
Mangy_Dog	i had a second mug of a rather strong coffee
Mangy_Dog	i should not have any more
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: i don't drink coffee
Mangy_Dog	:o
Mangy_Dog	tea?
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: i also refrain from caffeinated beverages
Mangy_Dog	:o
Mangy_Dog	heathen
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: fruit tea
Mangy_Dog	and you call yourself a programmer :p
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: heh, yes - i call myself a programmer
amigojapan_	rindolf: there are many stereotypes about programmers which don't always apply
rindolf	amigojapan_: right
rindolf	amigojapan_: some programmers are dog people
rindolf	amigojapan_: and some go to bed early
amigojapan_	rindolf: hehehe, I bet that is quite common
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: woof
Mangy_Dog	bark
Mangy_Dog	aww sorry to hear it
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: roar
* Mangy_Dog	bark bark bark
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: meow
* Mangy_Dog	head tilts
rindolf	we should start a zoo
Mangy_Dog	imma confused doggo
rindolf	Peyam: https://abstrusegoose.com/249
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: there are no dogs on the internet!
Mangy_Dog	but
Mangy_Dog	imma dog
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: :)
liste	nobody on the internet knows you're a dog
liste	unless you explicitly tell it
Mangy_Dog	heh
liste	https://www.openparenthesis.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/idog.jpg
* moriarty	barks
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=dogs-on-the-Internet
* moriarty	starts dry-humping Mangy_Dog
Mangy_Dog	:o
* Mangy_Dog	tries to shake moriarty off
* moriarty	holds steadily on like a cool skateboarder
moriarty	:D
* biberu	prepares an ad for puppies
liste	an ad targeted for puppies?
Mangy_Dog	but I'm a male doggo
liste	now that's some next-level marketing stuff
Awoca	Hip hop dogs.
moriarty	Mangy_Dog, that's OK, we'd just pretend this is prison
moriarty	;)
Mangy_Dog	:o
Mangy_Dog	:o
biberu	liste: targeted at Chinese restaurateurs
Mangy_Dog	oh I'm gay BTW... but i don't make puppies
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: ah
Lil_Smurf	TV for dogs
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: a gay male dog?
Mangy_Dog	ber arks
rindolf	on the internet!
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: and you drink coffee
Mangy_Dog	yep
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: you are a wonder dog
Mangy_Dog	yay
rindolf	Mangy_Dog: do you conspire to take over the world?
Mangy_Dog	naaa
rindolf	heh
Mangy_Dog	the big muscly wolves and tigers are set to take over the world

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2018-07-13

The voiceless Trashlord

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rindolf	hmmm,,,, Trashlord no longer has +v
vdamewood	He must have left the channel for a second or something.
rindolf	Trashlord: welcome to the commoner class
navkthx	Trashcommoner
rts-sander	filthy peasant
rindolf	navkthx: heh
rindolf	pleb
navkthx	^^
* rindolf	is joking
rts-sander	I'm not, I'm 100% serious
navkthx	as a heart-attack
arahael	"let them eat cake".
rindolf	rts-sander: heh
rindolf	arahael: BTW, this phrase predates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Antoinette
rindolf	Trashlord: how do you feel wo +v?
jeaye	Trashlord: how do you feel w +ov?
Trashlord	rindolf: feels weird after 4 months. But I wasn't voiced because I'm special, but rather because of a spammer. Multiple people were voiced and my bouncer just happened to be stable so I remained voiced the whole time
solidfox	what is w +ov and wo +v
rindolf	Trashlord: ah
Trashlord	jeaye: if I was +o it would have been easier, because some people thought I was channel staff. I started getting private messages asking why X is banned, etc
rindolf	solidfox: without voice
solidfox	so w +ov must be with op and voice
rindolf	Trashlord: did you see us joking about it earlier?
jeaye	solidfox: Mine's just wordplay on rindolf's.
solidfox	jeaye, oh OK lol
Trashlord	rindolf: don't think that I did
rindolf	Trashlord: ah
rindolf	Trashlord: scroll up
rindolf	Trashlord: sup?
Trashlord	rindolf: to what time?
Trashlord	rindolf: I'm trying to bake pitas again
rindolf	Trashlord: ah
Trashlord	I might have not been here when that conversation took place
Trashlord	if it was more than 2 hours ago
rindolf	Trashlord: we mentioned your nick
rindolf	Trashlord: i can paste it
Trashlord	rindolf: alright, paste
tbejos	rindolf: you do a lot of programming on graphics and video systems right?
rindolf	Trashlord: http://www.shlomifish.org/Files/files/text/irc.log.txt
rindolf	tbejos: possibly - nothing too much low level
tbejos	rindolf: well this project might be of interest to you https://github.com/gnif/LookingGlass
tbejos	it is a little low level, to be honest
solidfox	rindolf, the rules say no loggers, does that apply to excerpts?
Trashlord	rindolf: ah
Trashlord	well, I lost my voice because my bouncer got disconnected
Trashlord	¯\_(ツ)_/¯
rindolf	solidfox: i think not
solidfox	we need a +v bot
solidfox	to enable +v
solidfox	on anyone who asks
rindolf	solidfox: we used to have Archer
solidfox	rindolf, archer was a person
rindolf	Trashlord: bad bouncer
Trashlord	rindolf: it was on for 4 months
solidfox	and he only let certain people have +v :<
rindolf	Trashlord: fire them
Trashlord	my longest connection streak ever
Trashlord	rindolf: it's from a friend
Trashlord	hosted on one of his servers
rindolf	solidfox: it was also a bot
solidfox	rindolf, ah I see
solidfox	rindolf, I was trying bot commands and he replied "tisk tisk tisk" lol
solidfox	it surprised me
POJO	but "hello world!" will not get me there, even in a loop
solidfox	well not really algorithms, that might be going a bit overboard
rindolf	solidfox: i have some selected conversations from here on my site
solidfox	rindolf, that is probably OK
solidfox	i was just curious
rindolf	Trashlord: ah
rindolf	Trashlord: fire your friend
Trashlord	rindolf: heh
Trashlord	rindolf: the bouncer is good
Trashlord	rindolf: and I'm getting it for free
rindolf	Trashlord: OK
Trashlord	not gonna complain

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2018-07-26

Your Mum Needs a lot of RAM

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mrig	often wondered why a list of objects is called a vector in C++ too, seems some how related.
vdamewood	mrig: Because Cartesian vectors are just a list of values in math.
mrig	right yes.
velco	that's he original mathematical definition of vector: tuple of scalars
vdamewood	mrig: So the term was borrowed in the old days by some. Some others uses 'array' for the term.
vdamewood	C++ has a std::vector type because of this legacy
mrig	and the array gets conflated with matrices too.
DnzAtWrk	isn't a vector like a direction, compared to a coordinate
mrig	OK
deniska	I mean, a matrix is just a vector of vectors :P
vdamewood	DnzAtWrk: It can be, yes.
deniska	DnzAtWrk: a vector can represent both a direction, and a coordinate
DnzAtWrk	I tried learning what tensors are the other day
DnzAtWrk	seems like people can't agree on definitions of these things
velco	both a direction and a position
vdamewood	Isn't he they guy with the floating disc?
deniska	vector is just a clever name for "a bunch of numbers" :)
mrig	deniska: well it is kinda the axis rather than that value no?
vdamewood	Tensor's Floating Disc?
liste	vectors have length in addition to a direction
xeno	DnzAtWrk: when you did, did you go the math route, or did you try to follow some CS thing?
deniska	mrig: a coordinate is a pair of numbers, a vector is a pair of numbers, they are essentially the same thing
DnzAtWrk	Both
deniska	(a 2d vector I should say)
DnzAtWrk	and I still barely get it
liste	a vector stemming from origin can represent a coordinate pair
vdamewood	A 2d number sounds complex.
rts-sander	a vector can represent just about anything
rts-sander	when given enough dimensions
* vdamewood	uses a vector to represent rts-sander's mom
deniska	a vector can represent your face
deniska	and your mom
rts-sander	oh sheit
vdamewood	I've already got a vector for you mom.
rts-sander	vdamewood, I'd do the same for you but even my 32GB of ram couldn't fit your mum
velco	ur mom is infinite field of scalars
* vdamewood	bows to rts-sander
mobile_c	ur mom is worth 33 GB 0.0
DnzAtWrk	seems fine
DnzAtWrk	your mom has a high generality
mobile_c	XD
`slikts	is that a way of saying fat
vdamewood	My band is like 999 MB. No gigs yet.
gde33	higher languages (basic) so much fun!
mobile_c	gde33: as in Visual Basic?
DnzAtWrk	naw I'll just use nbasic
gde33	mobile_c: as in all higher languages are basic
mobile_c	gde33: oki
* vdamewood	makes a new programming language called SIMPLE
rindolf	vdamewood: heh
rindolf	vdamewood: call it "easy"
* vdamewood	makes another programming language called EZ
* inhahe	makes an esolang called Complicated
liste	inhahe: that'd be Malbolge :)
vdamewood	Now I'm making a backup of my backup.
* gde33	wants to make a language called Terrorism
dostoyevsky	Ponzi scheme is still the most popular
gde33	should be hackers, then you can say you are using hackers
vdamewood	A language should be called 'Yo mom', So books can be titled "Programming with Yo Mom"
deniska	Yo mom for beginners
gde33	embedded yo mom
vdamewood	Yo Mom in 24 Hours
inhahe	Debugging Yo Mom
deniska	Head first in yo mom
vdamewood	Yo Mom, the Hard Way
gde33	chapter 1: objects in yo mom

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2018-11-18

There are at least two inches in a mile

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bytefire	that stuff goes over my head
ph88	over my head as well :P
bytefire	may be half inch above your head and 50 feet above mine :)
rindolf	bytefire: what barbaric measurements
rindolf	bytefire: quick - how many inches are in a mile?
vdamewood	all of them
jrslepak	. o O ( how many barrels in an acre-foot? )
rindolf	vdamewood: i guess the capital of Ohio is "O" then
adsc	how many fathoms in a furlong?
bytefire	rindolf: there are more than 2 inches in a mile
jrslepak	of course, none of this is as dumb as having 112 pounds in a hundredweight
rindolf	bytefire: so 3?
mrig	to many to fathom!
Inline	if in doubt use your elbows
Inline	lol
bytefire	rindolf: well... there are 3 inches in a mile. there are other inches in a mile as well.
Inline	one bow and one bow bowbow
mrig	Yes that is how you get to the front of the Que in France.
Inline	wowow
rindolf	bytefire: heh
bytefire	:D
Inline	bow wow au
Inline	lol
mrig	A foot is a fair measure of spacetime :P
rindolf	bytefire: i'll take the first 20 inches in the mile
vdamewood	Speaking of spacetime, how many meters are in a second?
vdamewood	many*
bytefire	lol
Inline	naaa all you need is a clock and an inch stick to measure spacetime
Inline	lol
wedr	clock is just an invention
wedr	all you need is a stick
mrig	an 1/12th of is naturally a senseful measure of nought!
* vdamewood	sticks to the invention.
* wedr	invented sticks
rindolf	vdamewood: i wondered that as well
vdamewood	rindolf: I have no way to prove it, but I always figured that there were c*s meters in a second.
mrig	if a nautical mile is genuinely 60 minutes, how much is an inch in time?
mrig	:P
wedr	mrig: a litter.
mrig	ah" that is 1/12th an ah'
Inline	as big as the sailor
vdamewood	rindolf: That is, the time it takes light to travel a certain distance is that distance in time.
Inline	loll
mrig	or is that vis versa?
rindolf	vdamewood: ah
Inline	tailor the sailor without failure
* Inline	sings
Inline	lol
* mrig	fades into a black hole and emerges upon a brand new time line.
mrig	shiny!
wedr	wtf, you invented a stick
wedr	now we have to measure how long the new timeline is.
wedr	You monster.

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2019-02-18

Educating Machines

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* dan01	(~dan01@) has joined
rindolf	dan01: arrrrR
sir_galahad_ad	ay
rindolf	sir_galahad_ad: hello me hearty
rindolf	sir_galahad_ad: dan01 has to use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_(programming_language)
sir_galahad_ad	ah
rindolf	sir_galahad_ad: and he hates it
sir_galahad_ad	but machine learning and stuff!
rindolf	sir_galahad_ad: if a machine wishes to learn it should go to college! ;)
sir_galahad_ad	but it can't afford tuition on a machine's salary
rindolf	sir_galahad_ad: it should get a student's loan then
rindolf	sir_galahad_ad: or apply for a scholarship
rindolf	sir_galahad_ad: we cannot have ignorant machines

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2019-06-01

Vanilla software and Real Programmers

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Trashlord	where did the term "vanilla software" come from? Why vanilla?
_kmh_	Trashlord, like vanilla sex?
Trashlord	_kmh_: I didn't know that was a term
rindolf	Trashlord: vanilla means plain, raw, with no additions
rindolf	Trashlord: like vanilla icecream
Trashlord	rindolf: why not chocolate software then, like plain chocolate ice cream?
rindolf	Trashlord: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vanilla
gwosix	what the fuck is "vanilla software"
_kmh_	vanilla vs edgy/kinky/spicy/different from the norm
_kmh_	be it software, sex or whatever
rindolf	Trashlord: chocolate has a more noticeable flavour
gwosix	does Microsoft office count as vanilla software?
Trashlord	rindolf: alright
gwosix	vanilla is like beige
rindolf	Trashlord: and colour
rindolf	gwosix: like vanilla js
_kmh_	Java, C, python and alike are vanilla
InPhase	gwosix: Microsoft Office is more like an $8 bottle of asparagus water.
_kmh_	brainfuck is not
IRCMonkey	Vanilla means plain ol'; nothing fancy.
Trashlord	rindolf: but vanilla ice cream is white
IRCMonkey	Sometimes means original version.
koollman	_kmh_: how do you attribute flavor ? :)
rindolf	_kmh_: what?
_kmh_	Trashlord, white with a touch of yellow
Trashlord	OK
_kmh_	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck
andrei-n	I noticed that to be a good programmer you have to be a good writer: you have to be able to write comments, tutorials, explanation, and documentation and be not ashamed to show it to other people. What is your opinion?
_kmh_	lol
_kmh_	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanilla_software
_kmh_	there is actually wikipedia entry for it
rindolf	andrei-n: hi
rindolf	andrei-n: http://blog.red-bean.com/sussman/?p=96
_kmh_	andrei-n, to be good programmer you gotta be good at everything :)
_kmh_	the goose laying golden eggs
koollman	_kmh_: I mean, I know what vanilla means in this context. But how would the system-provided brainfuck be less vanilla than system provided Java ? :)
andrei-n	_kmh_, yeah, I even started copywork in order to improve concentration and memory... It's never enough.
koollman	(I do agree that brainfuck is esoteric)
koollman	_kmh_: I mean, on some Linux distributions it's easier to get brainfuck than oracle Java :)
IRCMonkey	Brainfuck is insane
Myr	_kmh_ : That would qualify you as a developer
tiggster79	andrei-n: To be a good programmer first and foremost you have to be good at logical thinking and problem solving. The rest are just details.
Trashlord	to be a good programmer you have to be able to quit vim
tiggster79	LOL
rindolf	Trashlord: heh
rindolf	lol
tiggster79	oh yeah, and real programmers use vim :)
IRCMonkey	Winners never quit, quitters never win …
* rindolf	wins vim
rindolf	because i couldn't quit it
Trashlord	lol
andrei-n	tiggster79, I noticed that I'm not even able to understand the problems on spoj, leetcode and project-euler. That means I'm really bad at reading... So I have to improve this before even trying to become better at problem solving...
Myr	Vim is for the lazy, nano is where it's at
rindolf	Trashlord: :)
Trashlord	rindolf: :)
deniska	nano is for people who are too scared to use notepad.exe
rindolf	Myr: https://xkcd.com/378/
tiggster79	deniska: nano is for people who want to use the terminal, but are too afraid to use vim.
Myr	rindolf: you got me there, never could grasp butterfly
rindolf	Myr: heh
rindolf	Myr: use emacs then
rindolf	Myr: it has m-x butterfly

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2019-07-15

The European Bundle

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zenix_2k2	so someone here advised me to compile my program on Windows 10 and it is gonna work backward on the other versions, but when i run on Windows 8 it says something like "api-ms-win-crt-runtime-l1-1-0.dll is missing"
rindolf	zenix_2k2: i recall similar issues
zenix_2k2	and i was trying to compile the program with pyinstaller
Arahael	zenix_2k2: You need to find the redistributable for the libraries you're using, and install them. Looks like windows 10 has it by default.
zenix_2k2	more like freezing it
Arahael	zenix_2k2: That said, the convention in most environments is to get the oldest environment you want to support, and use that.
Arahael	zenix_2k2: Older apps tend to work well on newer systems. The reverse is not usually true.
deniska	zenix_2k2: when compiling for compatibility, you probably would want to go with older systems rather than newer
zenix_2k2	well, maybe i will just compile on Windows 8 and hopefully it will work on win10 and win7
deniska	(not sure how it works on windows though)
Arahael	zenix_2k2: In that case, compile on windows 7.
deniska	if you want to target win7, you probably should use win7
zenix_2k2	that's weird, some people here said i should have compiled on win10
zenix_2k2	it is gonna work backward
zenix_2k2	or maybe i lagged :P
vdamewood	Windows 7 is EOL in 7 months.
zenix_2k2	well... but i bet its apps will still work on windows 10 and 8
vdamewood	zenix_2k2: Compiling for Windows 7 on Windows 10 should, in theory work, as long as you only use libraries that come with 7.
vdamewood	Same with 8.1.
rindolf	zenix_2k2: Arahael deniska : I think the https://pysolfc.sourceforge.io/ packages work fine on older windows and they are built on win10
zenix_2k2	does this mean i should ask my users to install the appropriate libraries every time they use my program ?
Arahael	rindolf: If you know what you're doing, sure.
Arahael	rindolf: But if you're struggling, well, one very obvious way to figure it out is to just use the oldest system.
rindolf	zenix_2k2: you can bundle them
vdamewood	zenix_2k2: The thing is, I think that missing lib you mentioned isn't distributed with Windows before 10. Maybe before 8.0.
deniska	depending on the licensing terms of this library, you may redistribute it with your program
rindolf	Arahael: yes
zenix_2k2	rindolf : bundle ? this sounds new to me
vdamewood	deniska: It looks like an MS-supplied library. MS is basically You may distribute Release versions of the dll's freely. No modification, no source, no static libs, and no debug versions.
rindolf	zenix_2k2: it is an English word
zenix_2k2	yea but its definition in this situation isn't
rindolf	zenix_2k2: means "to include"
zenix_2k2	yes i know, but when you talk about include, i can only imagine something like "#include"
zenix_2k2	in C, C++ programs
vdamewood	zenix_2k2: Think more like zip myzip myapp foo.dll
vdamewood	That's a terrible command.
rindolf	zenix_2k2: include has a more general meaning
vdamewood	zenix_2k2: Anyway, think about 'including' something in the same archive file, or such, when people speak of bundling.
rindolf	zenix_2k2: like "europeans, including Frenchmen, are ..."
* vdamewood	bundles France with Europe.
rindolf	vdamewood: heh
* Arahael	thinks #include <frenchmen> is a bit weird.
rindolf	vdamewood: will it cost extra?
vdamewood	#include <frenchman.h>
vdamewood	#include <aussie.h>
Arahael	#include <australia.cpp>
zenix_2k2	yea, that is a good example, so bundle in this case is like a zip file ?
deniska	#ifdef __deal__ #include <uk>
deniska	>_>
deniska	<_<
Arahael	deniska: Isn't that over yet?
deniska	dunno, I don't really follow this
vdamewood	zenix_2k2: Yeah, same concept. You just include it with your installer program, though, which often is something similar to a self-extracting zip file.
zenix_2k2	Hm, i don't think pyinstaller offers any option like that

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2019-07-15

Last of the Mercurialians

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mobinoob	mercurial is on the way out folks: https://bitbucket.org/blog/sunsetting-mercurial-support-in-bitbucket
mobinoob	time to buckle up and git gud
rindolf	mobinoob: saw that
merijn	mobinoob: pfft, that won't stop me from using Mercurial :)
merijn	mobinoob: I've been using GitHub as main host for my code in mercurial for years to prepare for this moment :p
mobinoob	the mercurial rats swim to the last big sinking ship :)
mobinoob	merijn, haha but at some point you'll have to learn git though :)
duncan	Does github support mercurial or do you just push it there as a git repo?
merijn	mobinoob: Why? I've managed with Mercurial since 2009 across 3 different companies where everyone was using git
merijn	duncan: hg-git extension allows bidirectional conversion/interaction with git
duncan	I have in my mind a long-standing idea to write a host for rcs projects that merely offers an rsync interface
merijn	duncan: So I just clone with "hg clone git+ssh://url" work with Mercurial and when I'm done I just do "hg push" and it Just Works (TM) (unless there's git submodules, then things get super annoying)
merijn	But then submodules are also annoying in git :p
duncan	I do understand they compare closely which is nice
merijn	duncan: The data model is very similar, the approach to UI/workflow is not, Mercurial is much more human friendly :p
duncan	For keeping track of notes I like to use rcs as it is so simple and reliable
mobinoob	merijn, can you also do interactive rebases etc?
merijn	mobinoob: Why wouldn't you?
mobinoob	merijn, idk maybe there's some subset of functionality that isn't available via merc
mobinoob	you wouldn't know because you don't know git after all
rindolf	duncan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revision_Control_System - this?
mobinoob	you're missing out
duncan	Yup, good old rcs
rindolf	duncan: i use git or hg for notes
duncan	I have many such notes and the emacs rcs interface is good
merijn	mobinoob: Some people say Mercurial doesn't "natively" support rebases, etc. because rebase is technically an extension, but it's an extension that's maintained by the Mercurial core team and ships as part of the standard mercurial install, so I think that's kinda nonsense
merijn	mobinoob: I would actually argue that the evolve extension of Mercurial is infinitely better than interactive rebases
mobinoob	merijn, yeah an extension by the core team is good enough
mobinoob	alright guess there's no problem then
merijn	mobinoob: https://www.mercurial-scm.org/doc/evolution/
mobinoob	it's like a javascript developer that only programs in some language that compiles to javascript
mobinoob	but less severe as it's more personal
Jck_true	Sadly it seems like Bitbucket is dropping support for mercurial... So getting hosting for open source project is gonna get even harder under hg
vdamewood	Jck_true: That rather sucks. hg is one of the two SCMs that don't suck.
duncan	What is the other one?
vdamewood	duncan: git
velco	as they say in the announcement, git just won.
velco	they've got like 1% of users using hg
vdamewood	Though, hg's development does seem to be lagging behind the Python 2 EOL party.
velco	and that's not the top of the foodchain 1% :P
mobinoob	popular doesn't always mean better though
duncan	vdamewood: it is full of stuff like `git-clip-submodule --sense-change [ --cripple-branch \| --overcome-archive \| --hurtle-nag-subtree ]` though
vdamewood	duncan: So?
duncan	It is a tad confusing
mobinoob	tad
mrig	oh Hg is mercury, right got to the same page in the end :)
mrig	I was just admiring how easy it is to use a bare remote git repo on any server; Love git.
mrig	That said I have never tried mercurial, likely a little slow compared to git no?
Jck_true	Speed was never an issue for me on my personal projects
vdamewood	duncan: Is that enough for it to suck?
mrig	not that it would make the slightest difference on any of my tiny projects.
icholy	all projects start small
Jck_true	And wait what... As I read the blog post are they simply gonna scrap all hg repositories?!?
duncan	I thought hg is faster than git
icholy	noo
icholy	Jck_true: where you reading that?
Jck_true	"Mercurial features and repositories will be officially removed from Bitbucket and its API on June 1, 2020."
mobinoob	and I never found git to be super fast
icholy	mobinoob: have you ever worked with svn?
mobinoob	icholy, once
mobinoob	icholy, svn is another level of shit though
icholy	used to be the best
icholy	"best"
Jck_true	SVN does however have the fantastic TortoiseSVN interface... Which makes it great for non command-line users...
Jck_true	And there is something nice about the "everything is on the server"
mobinoob	lmao you're joking right?
vdamewood	I wonder what major open-source projects still use Hg.
rindolf	mobinoob: what is faster than git? perforce?
rindolf	vdamewood: firefox
vdamewood	rindolf: I thought they might. I wonder if Thunderbird does, too.
mobinoob	rindolf, idk
Jck_true	mobinoob: You're welcome to call me stupid. But like 40% of the time I don't know what the fuck I am doing when it comes to git stuff...
rindolf	vdamewood: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercurial
mobinoob	Jck_true, we all make mistakes, it's never too late to git gud
icholy	rapidwave: most are hand-written
rindolf	Jck_true: i still miss the simplicity and transparency of the svn model
rindolf	Jck_true: though I'm mostly using git and hg now
mobinoob	once you get git at the basic level it becomes easy in usage
rindolf	Jck_true: but i don't feel i understand their program model
icholy	took me a long time before I really "got" git
mobinoob	the process takes years and requires an inquisitive mind
icholy	this talk is pretty good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCnnSryzPrE
Jck_true	That is such backwards thinking... ~60 years of computer science? And Git is the best we can do?
icholy	Jck_true: I feel ya
Jck_true	(But only if you spend a few years learning it)
mobinoob	Jck_true, Linus would be sad to see those words
icholy	it's really great once you master it though
icholy	kinda like vim
icholy	the UX is the main issue with git
mobinoob	damn git was created in 2005, doesn't seem that old
mobinoob	as in 2005 wasn't that long ago
Jck_true	That is how I tried explaining it to my ex wife. Told her she just needed a few more years getting to know me and then everything would be great between us
icholy	lmao
mobinoob	on the first date: "just let me fuck you for a couple of years, eventually it'll git gud"
noteqstmo	not that long ago? hmm git is half as old as x86 arch?
rindolf	Jck_true: heh
noteqstmo	386 i mean
noteqstmo	wait was 286 32 bit?
rindolf	noteqstmo: it wasn't
GeDaMo	"The Intel 80286[3] (also marketed as the iAPX 286[4] and often called Intel 286) is a 16-bit microprocessor" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80286
rindolf	noteqstmo: the first x86 was 8086/8088
noteqstmo	yeah definitely meant 386 with that comment then
rindolf	noteqstmo: and it was compatible with the 8080
GeDaMo	Only in the sense that 8080 assembly could be run through a translator to get 8086 assembly
rindolf	there was also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Let's give it a few years
Published	2019-08-22

Prioritizing Money

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WebStorm	it seems in my country node jobs pay about $20k more a year than rails jobs
WebStorm	I guess if I want $20k extra I should stick to node
WebStorm	I did some research
pulse	people who see programming just as a way of making money weird me out
deniska	pulse: I started programming because it seemed like a fun thing to do, and as a bonus I can also have jobs involving it
pulse	deniska, that's a proper mindset
deniska	but caring about programming only from 9 to 5 is a valid mindset too
pulse	deniska, disagreed
pulse	if you treat programming as a way to get money then your code will necessarily suck
pulse	you should treat code with all the respect it deserves, and consider money as a happy side product
pulse	it's the same in any other craft, to be honest
pulse	prioritizing money means you don't give the craft the attention it requires
rindolf	pulse: and it likely will result in less money
pulse	rindolf, yes, ironically enough

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2021-07-07

X-Y Problem

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eson123	so question, i am intending to make a feature where a user makes a purchase or anything, it will send an email to the admin, but that does require me to create an email first and put it in the config in the backend, is there anyhow i can send email anonymously ?
rindolf	eson123: hi
eson123	oh hi
rindolf	eson123: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/image-macros/indiv-nodes/set_up_email_service.xhtml
bayaz	Title: Shlomif’s Memes - “One does not simply set up an E-mail service.”
eson123	rindolf: oh no, that's more unecessary work
rindolf	eson123: you can use 'do-not-reply@eson123site.tld'
eson123	doesn't that still require me to setup my own email server ?
rindolf	eson123: no, see the DNS MX record
rindolf	eson123:
PlanckWalk	Yes, generally anything can send mail to an address.
PlanckWalk	If you don't own the receiving server it's a good idea to whitelist your sending thing though.
PlanckWalk	(Which may involve SPF and DMARC and so on)
OverCoder	hello
OverCoder	I need a nice way to manage secrets in a giga project
OverCoder	What felt like the best way to manage secrets is Google Secret Manager
InPhase	I simply setup an email service. And it works more reliably than all the other email services I have access to. It wasn't really too hard.
OverCoder	but for compute resources, we don't use GCP computes (yet), because they're very expensive
OverCoder	This "giga project" is actually a monorepo, and secrets can be text or files
OverCoder	I'm not quite sure how to manage this stuff nicely
OverCoder	Some secret files may be shared by all packages
OverCoder	some files are scoped to specific packages
OverCoder	etc.
InPhase	There are a few extra steps now compared to setting up email services in the 90s, but not really that much.
OverCoder	Also Docker Compose is used to bring up all the packages
OverCoder	so the question is, what's a nice way to manage secrets
PlanckWalk	Yes, I run my own email server
PlanckWalk	Also, setting up a special purpose server that only sends or receives mail on a single address is very trivial.
PlanckWalk	You can then mostly not care what goofball anti-spam measures the rest of the world lurches into.
PlanckWalk	There's still a piece of equipment in a mine in Western Australia which reliably sends reports. I set it up in 2002.
PlanckWalk	It doesn't have any fancy antispam stuff and the receiving email server doesn't care.
OverCoder	how do you guys manage things like bucket names in code
OverCoder	or basically any identifier for some resource on a cloud provider
OverCoder	I can't wrap my head around this
OverCoder	every solution I come up with ends up gross
OverCoder	like I don't want to hardware `some-whatever-value` every time I want to access the bucket named `some-whatever-value`
OverCoder	because (1) it sounds easy to type `some-whetever-value` accidentally and spend 5 hours trying to figure out what's wrong
OverCoder	(2) I don't like that the validation is not compile time
OverCoder	(3) I don't like how hard it is to change that name later, yes Ctrl-Shift-F may work but it's not very elegant
OverCoder	(4) it's not possible to tell how many buckets a service uses at a glance
OverCoder	I'm not even being specific about bucket names either, but any cloud provider resource including service accounts, cloud functions, pubsub subscriptions, etc.
rindolf	OverCoder: wrap in an object?
OverCoder	rindolf, something like this right? https://irc.overcoder.dev/uploads/81ed78804ecdf0d0/image.png
OverCoder	thing is, for example TypeScript has a feature where it can validate strings to conform to a certain shape
OverCoder	so for example I want the `users` bucket to only contain keys of certain formats and only
OverCoder	not sure how to put this together entirely
OverCoder	I mean yes I could write an entire giga types file and type checks all this stuff
OverCoder	but overall I'm confused as what people do
OverCoder	because the issue seems not google-able
OverCoder	as if I am googling a problem no one has
* OverCoder	is confused
rindolf	OverCoder: more like `MyBucketName(name='myname') `
OverCoder	rindolf, yes but what validates `myname` is even remotely a relevant name on cloud?
rindolf	OverCoder: your tests suite
OverCoder	tests are ridiculous
OverCoder	it's just typing the code twice
OverCoder	i don't do it
enxine	me either. i don't code too. i make an infinite loop and wait for random bytes to arrange in a program i want.
rindolf	OverCoder: with code introspection then?
OverCoder	what's that
rindolf	enxine: heh
supperman	buckets should be clearly labelled, mashed potatos, gravy, macaronis, etc
rindolf	enxine: https://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/slash-dev-null_is_WebScale/
bayaz	Title: slash-dev-null is WebScale
enxine	hehe
decider	why not just put everything into a json file and load it at run time? its not great but seems like its the standard way of handling these things
ornx	code doesn't work, any tips?
rindolf	OverCoder: google / ddg it
ornx	thx bro, i'll see if that works
ornx	okay i googled "why doesn't my code work" and i think the issue might be that i have something called an "X-Y problem"? is there an easy solution for that?
edgar-rft	use Z only
nitrix	Ask about the X instead of the Y.
nitrix	Aka, don't ask the derived question, ask the original.
rindolf	heh; ornx++

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2023-02-08

Websites down for maintenance

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irrelephpant	Different question: How can many websites take their entire operation down while doing backups? What could be causing the need for that? For example, right now, "Briefly unavailable for scheduled maintenance. Check back in a minute." at https://acceptableads.com/standard/ I don’t get this. Why can’t the backup be made while the site is being served?
RelayChat	it can be
rindolf	irrelephpant: snapshotting? I don’t know.
irrelephpant	Surely PostgreSQL is not unique in that it can back up data while not affecting the normal operations at all?
irrelephpant	Snapshotting?
RelayChat	irrelephpant you could probably set up a manual copy/paste with any database.
rindolf	irrelephpant: yes, freezing the normally dynamic state of a UGC site’s database
mercenary	irrelephpant: ‘scheduled maintenance’ is not necessarily equal to ‘backup’
irrelephpant	RelayChat: "you could probably set up a manual copy/paste with any database." <-- ?
irrelephpant	rindolf: "UGC"?
irrelephpant	mercenary: What else could it refer to?
RelayChat	copy the database.db file and paste it elsewhere. that's a backup too.
mercenary	irrelephpant: OS/software upgrades. database layout changes that need the code to be in sync. server moves. and many other things
rindolf	irrelephpant: user-generated-content, jeeze
RelayChat	maybe they’re running windows server and it’s a patch tuesday
irrelephpant	rindolf: Never heard that before.
irrelephpant	mercenary: Hmm… I suppose.
rindolf	irrelephpant: from weblog comments to youtube uploads
RelayChat	https://acceptableads.com/standard/
RelayChat	it’s back up
RelayChat	a new windows update was released a few hours ago so that may have been it
RelayChat	irrelephpant
irrelephpant	Windows update? I thought that site was about web ads?
RelayChat	the server os could be windows
RelayChat	March 14th = Patch Tuesday
rindolf	speculation isn’t fruitful
rindolf	and actions and outcomes are more important than motives
pyzozord	rindolf: depends
pyzozord	cannot set a general rule for that kind of thing
rindolf	pyzozord: I didn’t mean it as gospel :]
pyzozord	rindolf: right, sorry
rindolf	pyzozord: no worries. \o/

Channel	##programming
Network	Freenode
Published	2023-03-15

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